Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 26/7/2017 14:11

And you know why.

I do read other threads and some are beyond bonkers on the hype. I struggle to understand the gullibility of some. I out it down to mad gambling addicts with a screw or two loose.

We'll get updates here from time to time and that's about as much as I can say here.

I have been expecting negative news on one graphene share (no two actually), one if which I don't mention but may do if I can gather verifiable info. I'm sure the negative has taken place but I can't find a public reference to it just.

[festario] 26/7/2017 14:01

I knew you'd say exactly that.

[superg1] 26/7/2017 13:55

Better that way Fest reacting to developments than chasing potential. That's the way the VRS team like it.

If it was a hot hype share then the looney lot would be here.

[festario] 26/7/2017 12:51

Sleepy share this is, yawn.

[vasilis] 26/7/2017 11:20

lucky

It's because of those very same statements that I thought it best to just highlight one or two things about the holding company Zenyatta to put things in context. Just because Zenyatta blow a few publicity notes on a euphonium it doesn't mean that they have a colliery brass band to back it if you get my drift. So if some people want to either join or put money into Zenyatta's alleged 'brass band', good luck to them. Personally I think the euphonium makes exactly the kind of sound that I would make to ZEN-tech if they knocked on my door for any 'brass'!

[luckyorange] 26/7/2017 10:53

Thanks Vas, the reason I posted it was this

'The UK is a centre for graphene research, innovation and funding and consequently this attracts many global graphene industry specialists.

By locating in UK, ZEN-tech will be able to tap into the extensive resources available there and will be on the leading edge of the developments in this new and fast growing materials sector.'

The first sentence is interesting considering they could have chosen other countries, the second sentence highlights their intention of going after the available funding... grrrrr!

About time VRS was given a slice of the pie considering how advanced they are compared to others!

[superg1] 26/7/2017 09:58

Vas

As we can see a number of graphite companies are trying to create an investor boost by talking graphene.

That follows on from a few years ago when the large flake and other higher grades for batteries hype that came. Stratmin were one on the AIM. None took off or got interest that I know if and now many are trying the graphene hype.

Graphite mines offline are numerous.

The one Lucky ID'd the other day looks like a complete fraud as is the news about a deal. That one was so poor it's obvious to anyone that understands graphene but many on the ASX will fall for that one and get done over.

[superg1] 26/7/2017 09:51

Astral

My guide for scale up was one shift and obviously they could easily do two if the need which would double my range.

EG AGM's claims are based on 24/7.

It also helps to know the cost of the kit v returns which if you know it through research is very good.

Pure estimate here just on the intial process and assuming similar scale enhancement on bigger machines as in the proposed step up.

For £2m on the shearing process I'd estimate the range would be 7-14 tonnes.

From the example I am aware of cost per unit returns a higher mutliple of production v the increased price.

On the ink Prof Ferrari said for a modest investment they could produce 100 tonnes (100,000 litres). We know that process has yields of 100%.

Some others have already wasted £10 mill or more in cash with no upgrades. With that sort of cash VRS could transform the graphene industry. Half that would do I suspect.

[vasilis] 26/7/2017 09:31

lucky

1 Zenyatta Ventures was founded to exploit a naturally occurring graphite deposit in Albany, Canada on First Nation land -

If you look at the Board under the Corporate heading you can see the industry experience is in mining.

2 It was only last month that Zenyatta announced exfoliation of graphite to GO but at the laboratory level, with hopes it could be scaled up -

Note the cautionary statement :-

'CAUTIONARY STATEMENT: This analysis does not represent a statistically large sample size and the OCE grant is for going from small scale lab equipment to a larger scale equipment. Furthermore, these positive results do not mean that Zenyatta can extract and process Albany graphite for graphite applications on an economic basis. Without a formal independent feasibility study, there is no assurance that the operation will be economic.'

So the announcement of the formation of the subsidiary ZEN-tech should be assessed in my view bearing in mind both what Zenyatta has achieved to date and what experience and resources it actually has - or hopes to attract - to carry out future objectives against current established businesses in the graphene sphere.

[luckyorange] 25/7/2017 23:47

'ZEN-tech, a private incorporated company, will have access to the high-purity graphite from Zenyatta Ventures for graphene and graphene related opportunities. There is a high level of interest, especially in Europe, from sophisticated technology or cleantech entities, particularly related to a need for access to a unique raw material graphite source that converts to high-quality graphene for various applications.

The UK is a centre for graphene research, innovation and funding and consequently this attracts many global graphene industry specialists.

By locating in UK, ZEN-tech will be able to tap into the extensive resources available there and will be on the leading edge of the developments in this new and fast growing materials sector. The subsidiary will operate independently of Zenyatta and will be assembling an expert management team once the structure is in place. Details on company structure and related developments will be announced in the near future.'

[festario] 25/7/2017 22:36

Ah! 'Gele, you're here too! Good luck matey!

[abergele] 25/7/2017 22:26

Thanks Superg1 for your comprehensive reports,
a most welcome read for those with less time...gla.lth's,,and Festario..

[bones] 25/7/2017 16:07

A couple of trades on NEX as well.....

[festario] 25/7/2017 15:06

Finally... a trade on VRS today.... and a little buy I think.

[astralvision] 25/7/2017 15:02

Depends on what you call large!

[serratia] 25/7/2017 14:23

At Cambridge I asked - If a large order came in can your existing kit handle it ? The answer -yes.

[superg1] 25/7/2017 13:19

re The comment about the first graphene purchase.

That came about due to an end user which it turns out was the Mclaren watch deal (in part) already had an idea and plan butnot the product to execute it.

Rumour control has it that they had tried a particular graphene which didn't work hence they went to the NGI to find one that did. Which as it happens turned out to be good timing as VRS trials in carbon fibre had recently been completed.

The actual watch no doubt started it's plans a year or two prior to launch.

So obviously the NGI advice was Nanene. The OEM didn't approach VRS they went to the NGI.

[astralvision] 25/7/2017 12:00

sg
I have done all the required research and I'm happy with my position and my take on things. I don't take everything at face value (not saying you do either)
It's a question now of seeing how things play out, investing is always a bit of a gamble, I favour VRS but I want to see solid progress. It's a shame they have made that progress harder to track by lumping plastics and graphene together. Who really wants to know how many shopping baskets AAC have produced? But there again there is the suggestion that by lumping these things together it can disguise slow progress on graphene sales. Perish the thought, I'm sure it was done for the best of reasons!

[superg1] 25/7/2017 11:50

Astral

On the first step of scale up the costs dramaticallly drop as fixed costs are not much different. So 250kg to 500kg does dramatically costs.

On the theory side it's simply down to demand and cost. There are probably 10's of 1000's of the kit needed worldwide.

So my theory comment is simply demand based.

[superg1] 25/7/2017 11:03

Astral

Have you been to the facility, watched production and spoken to the guy ( Also an engineer) who produces it, as part of your research.

Obviously I'm relying on what they say and I see.

On scale up some time back the CEO said in theory larger machines will do the same. He did say as an engineer things on paper don't necessarily work in reality.

That changed to checking that it works scaled up to the intended scale up kit. EG making sure it works before scaling up and the CEO says it does.

The way VRS work is to prove things work. Hence instead of saying we produce graphene and graphene does X Y and Z, they proved Nanene works then said they can do X Y and Z. The main reason being if it didn't work it's not a business to spend money on. That combined with many graphenes out there that don't work. Hence the have called it Nanene to get away from the plethora of junk graphene claims.

[supernumerary] 25/7/2017 10:38

PS At the risk of disrupting someone's patent application ;¬) I guess a similar effect might be achieved by using a dual head machine to print alternating layers of ordinary filament, and thin graphene-infused filament. That would still need the microwave heating process, but as that's cheap and quick it's not a great problem. One would have to look at the Texas patents to see what they cover before considering any such approach.

[supernumerary] 25/7/2017 10:34

Yes, indeed.

Meanwhile, I think this makes a lot more sense than just sticking graphene in 3D printer filament. As I said previously, the weak point with 3D printing is the layering, which tends to delaminate (tried pulling your robot apart yet sg, to see?), and these guys are tackling the problem directly:



Microwaves and nanotubes make for stronger 3D-printed objects

Valuable as 3D printers are proving to be for tasks such as prototyping, the objects that they create still tend to not be as strong as their traditionally-constructed counterparts. That's because printed objects are made up of individual layers of material, as opposed to one solid chunk. Thanks to research being conducted at Texas A&M University, however, 3D-printed items can now be made that are reportedly 275 percent stronger than would otherwise be possible.

Doctoral student Brandon Sweeney and his advisor Dr. Micah Green developed a new technique, that involves depositing a layer of carbon nanotubes on the outside of a plastic filament used for 3D printing. That filament is then used in a regular printer, for creating an object in the usual fashion – by laying down sequential layers of softened plastic, produced by heating and extruding that filament.

Once the printing process is complete, the object is placed in a solid state microwave source (basically a specialized microwave oven). The heat that is generated gets concentrated in the carbon nanotubes, causing the plastic in those areas only to melt and blend with the surrounding plastic. In this way, the plastic gets selectively welded together at the boundaries between the layers.

"The basic idea is that a 3D part cannot simply be stuck into an oven to weld it together because it is plastic and will melt," says Sweeney. "We realized that we needed to borrow from the concepts that are traditionally used for welding parts together where you'd use a point source of heat, like a torch or a TIG welder to join the interface of the parts together. You're not melting the entire part, just putting the heat where you need it."

The technology has been licensed to local startup company Essentium Materials, which plans to commercialize it. It is hoped that the microwave system could be built right into printers, so the printing and electromagnetic welding could take place in the same machine, in one step.

Source: Texas A&M University

[vasilis] 25/7/2017 10:15

Many thanks SG for the response and additional clarification on scaling up potential for VRS and future opportunities for graphene in battery technology.

I don't know how far this has progressed as regards supercapacitors in batteries but clearly the potential is enormous -

Just another example which shows how fast things are currently happening with graphene based research.