Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 05/7/2017 10:32

Rid

I fully understand that.

I'm all for investors having their own level investment due to the circs at the time.

EG I would only go punt level in many and would wait for confirmation of points before I would go any deeper.

Many go on about golden tickets and missing out but it's nonsense.

A 10% rise on £5k is £500. On £50k it's £5000.

So you have made your £5k on the heavy interest at a more secure point than the £5k punt that needs a 100% rise.

It's all relative to the investment, the risk and circs of the company at the time. For me personally I felt it was a good bet to take a decent chunk and if it fails then it's my decision. After all that's how entrepreneurs make their money by going big into something. That's what NR and co have done and I'm backing them.

As one put it recently it could halve or it could go 10, 20 times and more. So it seems. a fair bet on the odds compared to where it is.

After all some small companies somewhere are going to be the big companies of the future. Most big funds wait until they already much of the way there. Us AIM PIs and the odd fund take the dip early.

Many PIs won't even look at any AIM company and spit at the mention of the AIM.

I stick to what Scrutable told me.

In small companies they need the product to be viable for as many products as possible preferably worldwide.

I can't think of nay product with so much potential as graphene. I think it 20 years time it will be in just about everything we use.

So on the route top that some graphene companies are going to do very well.

As VRS is with the world leading universities as shareholders and partners and have proven their tech, it seems like a bloody good bet to me.

Time will tell.

[meganxmas] 05/7/2017 10:18

I agree on comments above re need to focus on key targets but at same time appreciate need to keep many plates spinning. Company needs to get a good one locked away. Encouraging comments infinal results re cash ie my reading is that they think are fine over next 12 months but ifneed to raise extra can do via up to 10% of equity. Key thing is dont seem to need to or want to. Anyway having watched the video re read results have just added £5k to my existing £10k. I like the realism from NR... is quite tefreshing. Thats it for me and hope this year is one of real progress and delivery.

[ridicule] 05/7/2017 10:06

Dear all who have commented on my last post. I agree that yesterday's,VOX interview was superb and the best NR has done to date. I also agree that one could sense something should break soon. My observation remains however. Let's hope an RNS resolves the issue sooner rather than later.

[sandbag] 05/7/2017 09:54

"and UOM/Cambridge/NGI connection will be some comfort for such companies. It's probably a material factor in why VRS are getting cold calls from big names."

The connection certainly gives me some comfort as an investor. It probably had some bearing on why NR was invited on the Far East tour. There is a bit of quid pro quo here too. I would think that amongst the 120 companies who have contacted them there may be some very juicy challenges for the NGI. I can just see some young scientist rubbing his hands when NR asks "Company X has asked if we can do such and such. Do you think it's possible?" A great source of research material for them.

[vasilis] 05/7/2017 09:43

ridicule

The lack of industry standards which as SG has pointed out in many postings has not done any company of repute any favours. There appear to be many companies out there making claims that may not stand up to detailed examination or may not be able to maintain stated standards when looking to move from the laboratory to industrial production. In yesterday's interview NR rightly points out that we have independent certification in our armoury - a process which has taken time - but as NR says, we don't want to be the pioneers who end up full of arrows! So better to arrive later well armed than first and inadequately geared up.

Like others here, I've been involved with new technology developments - one way or another - for over 20 years. You cannot write a 'common script' to be followed by every venture as all encounter different challenges and at different times in their business cycles. And in the case of Versarien I'm heartened by what I heard from yesterday's interview as NR now seems to have all the ducks lined up - plus a new development in 3D printing on the way using Nanene. And his own personal stake in the company means that he is going the extra mile - which he has to do at this stage since with so many approaches he cannot predict where the 'breakthrough' will come; and even if he does have some idea he cannot say as NDAs are in place. But as long as there is a 'priority list' of prospects which can be adjusted on a weekly/monthly basis - and put other enquiries on the back-burner - there is a much better chance of a creating a breakthrough. After all, resources are finite and as NR is finding out, there are not enough hours in the day. But judging from the interview I think that our CEO is closing in on landing one of a number of big fish in the near future if all goes to plan. And as Versarien's credibility has grown - again referred to in the interview - we may not have too long to wait before a 'transformational' RNS comes our way.

[superg1] 05/7/2017 09:28

Good to hear you are not in FUM but they are great example of how to considerably drag out claimed simple processes.

If you were involved in such businesses then you should know how long to takes to get from A to B.

EG with FUM and Ansell I think it was 18 months of chats to finalise things.

Then add on top that graphene is new and as much as some would like to think big companies are well clued up on it, they are not.

I had the opportunity to chat with one such big company representatives and they had no idea about graphene in composites yet their sector is littered with composite materials so it was an eye-opener for them.

Yes VRS could release multiple news along the lines of.

We are in discussions/collaboration with X huge company to see if graphene is viable for use and performance enhancement in their product intended use identified by them.

The VRS view is such talks are worthless. There may be many cases where for various reasons its not a runner. IE it doesn't fit what the company needs, can't be done, or can't be done on costs.

As pointed out many of those big companies don't know what graphene can do and the costs of graphene. I already know of one that was hoping to add top quality graphene at pence per gram into something very cheap probably as a gimmick.

So until the particular topic is discussed between the two via an NDA, then they won't know. Then from discussions I know the NDA may involve tests in some products or evidence provided in tests for the type of composite requested. Such chats take time.

The busy time for the CEO was country hopping and meeting some of those big companies in their back yard who want to chat about graphene.

Now it seems the action moves away from that to the ground floor talking with these companies and sorting through the particular aspects they want to improve in their products or create new products.

One aspect I'm picking up on is the enhanced barrier properties in plastics and there are some big names known to be talking to VRS that have a very big interest in that sector.

In fact some of those big names named by VRS are in science papers on the topic if anyone bothered to read the various links I have added over time.

My guess on the gain would be the shelf life enhancement which if material by using graphene would save and gain some big companies billions.

Carbon fibre is another big sector that could explode on the graphene front if it's viable.

Then if you know who is talking to VRS then you know what commitment those big companies have made in graphene elsewhere in the past which didn't turn out as they would like. I have posted examples previously.

So many of the big names are looking for viable graphene and have had their fingers burnt with some others. So they will want to be sure VRS graphene works, hence the test data and UOM/Cambridge/NGI connection will be some comfort for such companies. It's probably a material factor in why VRS are getting cold calls from big names.

[phoenixs] 05/7/2017 09:25

ridicule, sorry if I misunderstood.

Re the NR interview, I do find it refreshing to hear honesty and realism. No hyping just saying it as it is. The comment "next move is totally transformational" is one that I find most encouraging.

Re talking to government, it does look as though NR is spending time with Innovate. I see that they give grants for technological development (Superg1 post on "Nano getting a good chunk of money"). Hopefully VRS may get a chunk of money.

[ridicule] 05/7/2017 08:44

phoenixs Thank you for your comment on my post 4766. I think you have misunderstood what I said. I was not commenting on completed production sales, I was commenting on the apparent lack of activity that typically leads up to such sales.

I understand that it will take time for VRS to really start to motor. I am quite heavily invested in them and I do have patience. My point is I find it quite remarkable with such exciting technology areas: carbide hardening; copper foam and graphene, that there have been no pre- production or technology partnering sales worthy of an RNS since the £100k graphene sale last November.

Superg I am not invested nor interested in FUM and as an investment discipline, I do not use other companies good or bad habits to assess a particular company, I use the performance metrics of the company I am invested in to do that. This is not to be overly critical of VRS or NR, although I do worry a bit if he is trying to handle 120 enquiries as you report. I would rather see tangible (RNS announced) real progress on a few.

[superg1] 05/7/2017 08:14

I got this from another investor who doesn't post. I can't comment as I haven't seen the relevant post but typically it sums up why I have the guy on filter. Wrong once again it seems.

"Sn is miles away, it hasn't launched yet, it clearly says in the release about to launch"

Then comments about some tweets.

As I recall the recent tweets came via 2D tech, then they disappeared. I ask the company about that and know the answer as to why it appeared then disappeared. I actually spoke to the guy that the tweet on.

I'll check the earlier tweets.

As I recall they gave the Chinese visitors a momento which was printed via £D and then later a £D printer was shown printing for the snow business. I'd have to check for the source of the tweets.

BUT VRS GNPS were around some time before they launched them as a product and called it Nanene.

They have not yet officially launched the ink and give it a name.

Why do people with declared little knowledge on the company put out false information?
As said I'm relying on another investor so if the post isn't there as suggested I apologise. I'm not checking.

[rogerbridge] 05/7/2017 08:01

Very good interview with Neil. I do like him.a genuine type I liked what he said about doing someone a favour, it pays back many times. I my working life I have aspired to do the same and you know what, it works time and time again. It says a lot about the man.Far to many CEO's of AIM companies filling their boots without a care for shareholders.
Well done N.R.

[jointer13] 05/7/2017 07:41

he's certainly a very busy man....and I believe it will pay off big time for him and us investors.

reaping and sowing.

[superg1] 05/7/2017 07:37

I see Nano got a good chunk of money from innovate.

My guess is VRS will have bids in too judging by comments and various twitter comments over time.

[superg1] 05/7/2017 07:24

Jointer

It sounds very encouraging and confirms much of what has been said.

They are talking too many very large household names.

As the CEO says it's on the back of being patient and proving their product works before pushing it.

Many of those were cold calls to VRS.

So 120 companies (so far) to work through.

And good on solid VRS PIs who having to listen to those that never bother to engage with the company, they have still resisted listing the companies they know are in talks. As per the Cambridge day presentation.

[jointer13] 05/7/2017 07:17

that is a good interview lucky...worth listening to everybody

"just about to launch 3d printing material"

"establishing ourselves with central government and customers as being the place to go for graphene"

"very very strong order book with total carbide"

"aerospace guys reckon 50% of a plane will be produced by 3d printing very soon"

"we've got several products that were currently in the process with"

all looking good for nanene

[luckyorange] 04/7/2017 23:09

To be honest astral I haven't read the broker note so I'm not disappointed but will ask if they (VRS) did indeed make that claim and may even share the answer ;-)

[luckyorange] 04/7/2017 23:04

Black and white was referring to an email which I'm sure would be a very quick job, may even be a cut and paste on the information you are referring to, you seem to have a downer on him?

Throwing out questions where the answer is not immediately available can only come from the supplier surely?

Hopefully you would have shared the 'random punter' information on this bb, then it wouldn't have been just for you, but some don't like sharing, only if it's a perceived negative :-)

[supernumerary] 04/7/2017 22:46

lucky - if the CEO's got time to answer questions from a random punter who's interested in a few metres of filament to play with, he really needs to think again about his priorities.

In any case, what he says isn't 'black and white', it's words over the phone. Why is the first mention of this supposedly state of the art new material in a tweet from a nursery school teacher?

sg seems to think it's a valuable development, but I can't see the evidence. If it really is, I'd have expected a proper launch event, with machines printing away, the output being gifted to tech journos to play with, technical spec sheets so designers knew how to use it, a customer rep saying how it was the greatest thing since laminated plastic etc etc.

Maybe I'm a bit too old-school, and NR is trying to catch them young :¬)

[astralvision] 04/7/2017 22:01

Ok luckyorange, you were referring to sn.But my post still stands anyway, best thing to do is rely on orders and sales rather than wishful thinking.As for patience, you are wrong there. I've got plenty of that.But it's not me that have been promising all these graphene sales, that's VRS. Just check out the last house broker note if you want to see what I mean. Yes, its not written by VRS, but in effect the house broker is just a mouthpiece for whatever the company tells it. For the year just finished they were, least up until fairly recently, forecasting £1m graphene sales. Whoops! Oh well, time to rewrite that note.

[luckyorange] 04/7/2017 21:42

No astral, it's referred to supern.

You are impatient , I have loads of it and it works across the board really. I was talking to a coin dealer and he said that his role requires lots of patience sometimes it can take months to sell a coin to someone who is really interested in it and similar on the buy side, which rang a few bells :)

I suppose it's the decision making process in private and business life that have similar perspectives.

[astralvision] 04/7/2017 21:27

luckyorange
re 'black and white' if you are referring to my post, then the Chief Exec can't tell you anything that isn't already in the public domain, ie nothing price sensitive. He may be able to promise loads of goodies at some point (not talking VRS specifically here), tell you how busy he is, how the 'phone never stops ringing etc. But until they get orders and they are meaningful orders and its released in a RNS it's a load of hot air, perhaps interesting hot air or well meant and sincere hot air, but it sure ain't an order!

[luckyorange] 04/7/2017 20:07

Said this a few times supern, ring the CEO and ask or email then you will have it in black and white. I would guess that superg would need to do similar!

[supernumerary] 04/7/2017 19:51

sg - I'd be interested to hear more about the strength gains from adding graphene to ABS filament.

Normally these 3D prints aren't used for their structural qualities, but more for aesthetics, but where they are, it's usually in compression not tension. The only figures I've seen for the vrs filament are for tensile strength etc, but every model I've ever printed and torn apart failed because of delamination - a perennial problem with 3D printing - so the strength of the filament (in tension or otherwise) really wasn't an issue.

And colour? Does the graphene affect it? Or is this filament black/grey only? And what sort of price increase over the standard stuff are they planning?

[luckyorange] 04/7/2017 19:14

Unilever and rfids it sounded like to me (I usually think that when household name/ thousands of products come up ), wouldn't be surprised if Huawei take it up though they are certainly after european market share, they are very forward looking as I'm sure Skylite will verify.

[superg1] 04/7/2017 19:05

Astral

Not in black and white but much of it in that podcast posted by Lucky.

120 big customers In talks and completely run off their feet by the sound of it. Off to chat to one such customer today which is listened to in full links to Cambridge ink a company keen to move on.

Then a lot of interesting and exciting comments thrown in. ABS market seem as a place to expand products printed 3D due to the strength gains on offer making 3D printing viable.