Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[krowelet] 03/7/2017 19:38

It does now appear to have been over-hyped by the co.in Q1, helped along by the sector being in the news, seawater to drinking water etc.etc. Big deals now seem rather further away than seemed likely at the time.
Further to fall imo.

[superg1] 03/7/2017 19:20

Anley

re

'Mr Ricketts has his work cut out to turn the company in to a break-even position ready for what I am going to call the "graphane profits" as the other divisions are too small to make a big profit and impact on the group.'

Completely incorrect as you do not know what other lines of business they have in the other sectors, parts of which could be multiples of the sales they do now. On that I won't expand.

That's not a challenge I'm just telling you as it is, don't assume some big companies mentioned are linked solely to the graphene or copper foam

I also know what prof Ferarri said to Hastings on his personal visit which Hastings can not share and neither can I.

I have never had contact with Hastings, like an NDA if it evolves into something then happy days for now it's worthless so to speak.

Some Aims go to 100's of millions on their MC because the relevant companies gloat about the worthless parts.

I'd rather VRS bump along then if the things in play turn into something material then the market would react to that. That way it's a real share price rise on real events not herd hype.

If it doesn't work out so be it but the potential is enormous. A fair bet I'd say considering the upside and the circs.

Nice to see a company slowly but surely turning investor cash I into long term revenue with the blue sky on top, but there is blue sky capability in those old dogs too.

We tend to forget about the copper foam which is now a year or two into customer trials. The copper foam is top performing heat sink. Heat management is a massive issue in many industries and will be in the electric cat industry too, for processors and the like its a nightmare as it is for smart devices. It's disruptive and thus it takes longer as it tries to push other suppliers aside.

On the graphene side that's just an extra for VRS in reality but a potential lucrative extra. For some graphene producers they have no back stop at all. If they fail on that they fail entirely.

My initial interest in this company was the copper foam and it still is an interest for me. Graphene wasn't in play back then.

If you look what they are doing they have vertical integration which I expect to continue is some way.

If you want to put A into B and B to C that may mean 3 companies 3 sets of material data sheets and safety data sheets, NDAs legal crossover and so on. Dealing with others adds costs via margins.

So in the case of plastics they can now go from A to B as they please. On copper foam the Carbide business provided the tech and staff that fitted.

Now I see they have the ABS filament which is interesting. I don't think many have enhanced ABS as yet in that regard but I'd have to check.

[supernumerary] 03/7/2017 18:54

Back in the day, when Versarien was first listed, it was as a copper foam company, using its in-licensed unique technology to make a leading-edge product. If they're now not using that patent-protected process, just something standard to lower the cost, what edge do they have over the competition?

They never established a solid market for it, and now there are other suppliers, some of whom, Chinese and Indian companies, are surely cheaper. Prieto also claims a foam with a density of less than 5% copper, which vrs can't produce with any of their processes, or we'd surely have heard of it.

[smlwebsite] 03/7/2017 18:43

Does not sound like they have thrown in the towel. Quite the opposite
'To this end we have now developed our own copper foam production processes so that we no longer have to rely on the licenced technology that originally formed the basis of development.'

[supernumerary] 03/7/2017 17:53

It looks as though they've thrown in the towel on the copper foam - that first sentence is a killer. It would probably be better to just abandon it and stop wasting time and effort...

'Our copper foam continues to generate some interest but will require further development. Our strategy is to concentrate on the larger opportunities available in graphene whilst still ensuring that we can produce and supply copper foam as required. To this end we have now developed our own copper foam production processes so that we no longer have to rely on the licenced technology that originally formed the basis of development.'

[anley] 03/7/2017 16:26

Mr Ricketts has his work cut out to turn the company in to a break-even position ready for what I am going to call the "graphane profits" as the other divisions are too small to make a big profit and impact on the group.

There are some institutions reading and looking at VRS today but there are also lots of questions which will be asked at the AGM.

Well done the management and just keep it up and the orders will flow......tell us more soon please.

[smoothgorilla] 03/7/2017 16:08

Festario

Exactly my point although one can make an assumption of a range for the cost of material - anything from 20-50% of sales for a manufacturing business which would indicate a range of £1.2m - £3m of material cost.

The point is that £2.7m of trade creditors is way out of alignment for a business turning over £6m and would indicate that creditor days are in excess of 1 year which suggests window dressing and/or cash preservation requirements which is why the auditors haven't signed off the accounts...they owe more money than they have financing availability. We've seen a huge hike in creditors but only a small increase in inventory which typically suggests creditor stretch in my experience.

I like the technology but businesses don't run out of profit they run out of cash.

[festario] 03/7/2017 15:37

I've produced a few sets of accounts in my time...COS of sales includes everything, literally everything that it costs a business to sell an item.From materials and labour, to transport and even that roll of bubble wrap.Way too simple an extrapolation to work out supplier and creditor terms from the COS total.

[phoenixs] 03/7/2017 15:14

no window dressing just plain simple accounts smooth gorilla, VRS say it as it is and do not hype and pretend that they have orders unlike many other AIM companies out there.

Versarien's revenue for the year ended 31 March 2017 was £5.9 million (2016: £4.40 million) with operating losses before exceptional costs, depreciation, amortisation and share based payment charges of £1.2 million (2016: £1.3 million).
So an improvement on last year before exceptionals etc.

Keep trying smoothie, you will not be convincing me and many others of the negative slant which you express on these end of year results which are presented and commented on by the CEO in his usual understated way.

[smoothgorilla] 03/7/2017 15:01

Errr serratia COS includes labour, both direct and indirect etc etc. You have to strip this out to calculate creditor days. Presumably this would equate to a couple of million.

Hence creditor days over a year. How many companies would be be prepared to offer that?

Perhaps a little window dressing here.

[serratia] 03/7/2017 14:35

COS £4.531m ,payables £2.726m - 220 days. Well done on getting good payment terms.

[daybreakers] 03/7/2017 11:38

Wrong company

[superg1] 03/7/2017 11:38

Has anyone listened to the directors talk interview plenty of mention about carbon fibre and other bits.

[luckyorange] 03/7/2017 11:12

Ooooh, there are some rude people about and don't they spout nonsense, naughty boys!

[superg1] 03/7/2017 09:58

Now you seem to have conveniently forgotten the AAC accounts are only for 6 months the full year will be about £4.5 to £5 mill.

Should the avatar not read Sour Gorilla, get over it. Your arrival on the year end news was fully anticipated.

Keep going fella it's all mounting up.

[smoothgorilla] 03/7/2017 09:32

Super

Your moving from a lemon to a moron.

£2.7m of creditors. <£6m of sales. COGs probably >£2.7m which means creditor days >1 year. What business has creditor days >180 days? Remember the Tesco scandal???

What do you not understand.

[daybreakers] 03/7/2017 09:27

Told y'all. Mcap grossly overvalued. My revised target 10p. Good luck suckers.

[smoothgorilla] 03/7/2017 09:24

super

Not quite sure what your on about but i'm very sorry that the facts in the numbers shatter your illusion. The words are very promising but the numbers paint a different picture. You really are a lemon.

[superg1] 03/7/2017 08:44

Are you back Keith how is Elektron going. I have you filtered so can't see the content. I should read it really to see if it breached market absue then ask the FCA to investigate you and what ISP address comes up etc which should link back to you.

Fancy the challenge.