United Utilities Share Discussion Threads

[philo124] 04/3/2014 10:45

Was tempted to sell 50% first thing but didn't - worse stocks to worry about.

[maurillac] 04/3/2014 08:28

well the fall in uu. was small yesterday. more than recovered already this am - looks to me like the uptrend is still in place. a go at £8 shortly ?
m

[philo124] 04/3/2014 08:12

Here we go.

[philo124] 01/3/2014 14:30

Going to wait until Weds, after VOD cash has found its way into the market, then take a view.

[pierre oreilly] 27/2/2014 13:21

Yeah, unless you understand risk, you can lose your home and everything else you own and more very quickly. But used correctly they can be useful- in fact, the use which wad describes - shorting off the peaks and closing with a quick profit on a small drop (equivalent to selling some shares after a decent rise then buying back after a hopeful small price drop) - is ideal, and how I operated for a while. Shorting via sb in this case lowers risk. I'd never open naked uncovered shorts - but the impression I get is that's exactly what most sbers go down the sb route for.

[darias] 27/2/2014 12:55

The other difference and, why I have not sb or gone short, is that you can quickly lose a lot of money which you may not have. You buy a share you hold the asset and the market determines what that asset is worth. You have a bet you hold a ticket to the market.

[pierre oreilly] 27/2/2014 12:43

Wad, the situation with sb and shares re divis is almost exactly the same, as Darius implied. The only slight difference is that effectively, with a long sb, you get the divi via a price adjustment on xd day rather than the divi payment day (and those with short sb positions lose that equivalalent amount of divi that day too). I'm not trying to convince you to sb or othewise, just stating some facts about them. Basically, they are almost exactly the same as holding shares in all respects except they are tax free. (I'm not a sb salesman btw).

Incidentally, the reason the gov keep them cap gains tax free is that they overall gain by doing so - they aren't being generous! Overall, sb ers lose out - it's a zero sum with the negative of the spread.

[wad collector] 27/2/2014 11:21

hxxp://www.topyields.nl/Top-dividend-yields-of-FTSE100.php
this puts UU at no 18 as of yesterday.

My point about the spreadbets and dividend is not the Xd correction factor , but that I would rather be holding the share and get the dividend as well as the capital gain. As UU is not xd for 4 months , I have time to buy back without losing the yield.

[miata] 26/2/2014 16:52

Depending on the source you use, these two might be included in the list.
Antofagasta 7.08%, Admiral Group 6.65% (rates per thisismoney site).

[alphorn] 26/2/2014 16:47

To add that dividends are taxed whereas, for example, option premia may not be. Several ways to skin a cat.

[darias] 26/2/2014 16:41

I need to be corrected as I like you do not place spread bets but it is my understanding that dividend is taken into account in the spreadbet.

It has to as on many occasions the share price falls on payment of dividend or exdivi date. In other words if I knew a share was going ex tomorrow I could go short and take the profit as the share price falls on ex day.

[darias] 26/2/2014 16:36

Thank you WAD

Your statement that there are 16 other shares paying a higher yield got me to do some research.

I do accept that yield varies with share price however I have found the following,

Yield Epic
5.92 sse
5.64 rsl
5.31 cna
5.01 mrw
4.96 rds.a
4.9 NG.
4.92 ba
4.84 sbry
4.77 imt
4.63 RDSb
4.61 GSK
4.52 TSC
4.4 hsbc
4.39 uu

Now my reading of that is that UU are the highest yielding water company in the ftse and there are not 16 companies paying a higher yield than UU but 12 and that is if you count RDSA and RDSB as two separate companies (RDS is Royal Dutch Shell). Since our average price is £6:58 and therefore the company is yielding around 5.25% on our current investment I don't think we will be selling just yet chasing a better investment.

BTW that little exercise also got me to look at Resolution. An interesting share.

PS We own 6 of those high yielders perhaps we are more conservative than you wad.

[wad collector] 26/2/2014 16:29

And they pay no yield.

[darias] 26/2/2014 16:00

or stamp duty.

[darias] 26/2/2014 16:00

As P o'R states spreadbets are not subject to cgt.

[pierre oreilly] 26/2/2014 10:44

Wad, you're very welcome to trade shares however you like, and I won't call you old fashoined or anything else however you do it.

But you carefully calculated the price 0.8% price move for breakeven, and I just pointed out, in a roundabout sort of way, that you'd need much less than a 0.8% move to breakeven when doing exactly the same thing via bets. I'm not saying you should do bets, just stating some facts about bets.

[fangorn2] 26/2/2014 10:38

"No , I would rather pay stamp duty , avoid CGT as ISAed , and have the yield.
Call me old fashioned."

Seconded.
And you also have the satisfaction of contributing to paying off our disgraceful national debt with your stamp duty!

[wad collector] 26/2/2014 10:22

No , I would rather pay stamp duty , avoid CGT as ISAed , and have the yield.
Call me old fashioned.

[pierre oreilly] 26/2/2014 09:59

Sheesh wad, if you're into short term selling at the peak and buying back, surely you should be doing that with spreadbets and not shares.

[wad collector] 26/2/2014 09:41

lol. No , it was my highly influential effect on my legion of twitter- following brokers.
I see the spread is currently 1p. This is one of the attractions of trading here. I use Selftrade so if I buy and sell it only needs a movement of 1/773 + 0.5% Stamp duty + £25 to see a profit . So on a £10k trade it only takes a 0.8% move in the share price . Providing it is in the right direction of course...

[philo124] 26/2/2014 08:29

wad sold probably.

[fangorn2] 26/2/2014 08:08

We fall 17p on a MS "Equal weight" TP 775p call.....

Jeez. Talk about fickle.

[darias] 26/2/2014 07:56

WadWe hold a fair chunk in our portfolio and, like you have held for many years, though not twenty. It is not only about yield it is also about risk. You have done more research than me and have found that uu is in the top 20% yield payers in the ftse 100. Since everyone uses water and, therefore risk/reward is a pretty low ratio it seems to be a teasonable share to keep funds in without the problem of high trading charges.One of the high yielders, I believe, is Ng which we also hold but I would rather have a steady payer like uu than a company that buys back shares one year then goes to its shareholders for funds the next. Seems to be a lack of foresight that is not present in uu.

[philo124] 25/2/2014 20:10

I would sell a fair chunk if I were in your position wad.

[wad collector] 25/2/2014 17:24

1. The yield is less than 16 other FTSE 100 companies so not so impressive as it was . Yes it is higher than the RPI but so what?
2. The share price is close to the all time high of the company AFTER it gave a share split and a 170p dividend.
3.I have held and traded these for almost 20 yrs and still hold about 6000 so see nothing wrong with trading some at this point. I expect I will buy them back before they go Xd again at a lower price.

But clearly you are cleverer than me and I wonder at what price you would sell some of yours. If you have any.