Thg Share Discussion Threads

[soleman1] 31/1/2022 07:47

Yeah definitely, work out pics!

[leoneobull] 31/1/2022 06:55

Oliver Shah seems to have a Moulding obsession. I wouldn't be surprised to see photos of Moulding on his bedroom wall.

[kooba] 30/1/2022 20:14

And who covered the outstanding debt taken on I presume it rests with MM vehicle so it's not all profit is it? The whole portfolio had a net value of £76m.if you are looking at spinning profits you need to know where the debt went..that's not necessarily public but appears has been paid off in some way.Either way anything pre IPO is fair game ... all open in prospectus and folk still wanted in ..no point in crying now is there?'The property carve-out had a £215m headline value, including £139m of assumed debt, but cost Moulding little or nothing upfront because he funded the balance using cancelled share options rather than cash.'

[f56] 30/1/2022 19:43

Good advice!

[debsdowner] 30/1/2022 19:40

Avoid imo its too murky.

[bldm] 30/1/2022 19:39

True, they are not bad deals at all. In fact, they are so good, I am unsure if THG is not just a facade to his hustle - his main moneymaker.

[merrick1965] 30/1/2022 19:36

Not a bad deal - he sold it for £100 million paid THG in kind by waiving a load of share options and no cash ( which were negotiated by whom with whom). Then guess what after IPO he gets a 50% share uplift and share holders get diluted. The lads done well for the lad - not for other shareholders

[bldm] 30/1/2022 19:20

Yup. It just blows your mind that a CEO who owned 1.2 billion in a company would be doing side deals rather than have his full focus and energy in running the company which made him (briefly) a billionare. Even if these deals weren't dodgy as hell - let's say he bought some properties not connected with THG - I'd be expecting him to give 120% to run THG as a CEO AND chair, not hustle on the side... A bit of a rant.

I see the Whitehead transaction as a non-event really. It was suggested it was a stupid deal and Whitehead is a senior position, deducing that THG's management is not very smart. Yes and no. Yes because he should have hedged his position perhaps even though this would have come at a cost. No, because I don't know what the probability of the shares dropping to this level was. I'm sure he thought it's very, very unlikely. So whether his decision was stupid or unlucky, I can't tell.

This does not mean THG management is smart. I for one was left with a very negative impression of their CTO hire. A guy with no prior retail or e-commerce experience apart from a few years in amazon video. The general calibre of the guy also seems low. He's also listed as a "director" of a software company he founded. The accounts of the company don't mention him and it is in fact owned by his wife. This software company has a website which mentions various big companies and implies they are clients. However, looking at the accounts of this company, they have no sales.

[merrick1965] 30/1/2022 19:07

Reposted key components of property deal


merrick1965 - 20 Jan 2022 - 08:54:23 -

Re the £100 Omega property deal

LondonMetric paid £47.5 million for Omega in 2014 and signed a pre-let agreement with THG, which exercised an option to buy it for £53.7 million in 2016.

THG buy the property for 53.7
sell it to Moulding Holding for what price (don’t forget no cash for he waived share options as was price then ) but he assumed debt and financed with THG lease back. He is lent money via his property company because of THG bringing jobs to Warrington (Warrington council would have easily lent this cheap money to THG)

jan 22 Moulding sells the property back to LondonMetric for £100m

Because Moulding has signed a long lease with THG, for LondonMetric to justify a 100m price tag the lease rate MUST have increased significantly since the original lease otherwise they would not justify the 100m purchase tag ( unless Moulding has packaged in other land he owned around the THG site - again such would be a conflicted transaction for such land should have been bought by THG to protect THG expansion)

The problem here is sentiment and this transaction does not help. THG saying company independently verified transaction then THG should sue that company for undervaluing the asset (and Moulding will not do that)

What I will add

The share price is now where it is and is becoming an interesting value proposition. The only question is how much of this nonsense is factored into the current price - Whitehead transaction has thrown a spanner in the works

[kooba] 30/1/2022 18:48

"An end to the loan saga might help clear the way for Moulding to mould THG into a shape he and his backers find more comfortable. Advisers to the company have been reported in recent months to have investigated a sale of retail divisions or a return to private ownership, ideas that company spokespersons have dismissed as "pure speculation". Another theory doing the rounds more recently involves Moulding bulking up the group by moving for a UK high street retailer with an undeveloped online presence but a more widely recognised brand."Deal speculation swirls as THG's billionaire boss rejigs property loan https://on.ft.com/3Gshb6h 15/01/22Last idea interesting only problem won't want to use paper here I wouldn't have thought which is his main currency. Needs something to divert attention from this historic nonsense and show where the company is going ..trading is important but corporate activity which could underline value or give a huge value accretive element leveraging off e-commerce platform could get the juices flowing again.

[boix] 30/1/2022 18:27

The difficulty seems now seems to be that MM, his friends and family have now made so much money he doesn’t seem to really care about doing the best for the remainder of the company shareholders.
He just responds to this controversy by getting lawyered up!
That’s certainly the way it appears.
I only wish he proves me wrong.
I do believe the company has a future but under different leadership.
MM needs to step away from the top job - He is tarnished and has failed the remaining shareholders.
That would make the share price rocket up!
He needs to do the right thing - He has had many opportunities to clear ALL this up!
Just IMHO

[kooba] 30/1/2022 18:23

On the property all straightforward and agree with board preIPO what's the question you want answered that's not in here , the prospectus or report and accounts ..all set out.https://www.ft.com/content/63668713-c1b1-49e9-9108-800bd9c79e97

[bldm] 30/1/2022 18:22

Don't forget to register for voting rights. It's usually super simple - just give your broker/investment platform a call and they can send you the instructions. It's usually a proxy vote platform and it's a 5-min registration once the broker sends you a link.

[billionarebob] 30/1/2022 18:16

So MM is like Al Capone ROFL

[billionarebob] 30/1/2022 18:13

Bldm how many shares do you hold and what is your average?

[careful] 30/1/2022 18:11

Donating to charity.

I remember reading that old scarface, Al Capone, the gangster who used to murder his rivals, was a great believer in charitable donations.

He used to donate money to orphanages and worthy causes, anonymously.
He would threaten Newspaper men on his payroll, 'Make sure the public know where the money is coming from.'

Accounting question.
If I owned a property and rented it out, how would I define profit.
Not the rent I assume.
But the surplus after substacting the cost of capital or opportunity cost.
.....thanks, very generous, that £5 will help.

[bldm] 30/1/2022 17:47

@careful I made this point over a month ago now. He has a conflict of interest. He is both the landlord and the tenant. A a CEO he has to squeeze the landlord on rent. As the CEO of the company holding the properties, he has to squeeze the tenant for the rent. I believe all the profit from the rentals that he rents to THG goes to charity. I made the point that perhaps the reason for this is because then it lessens the conflict of interest - he makes no money from the rent. However, profit can be manipulated - amazon only turned profitable recently. Anyway, the whole thing is just dodgy. Merrick seems to have looked into the property deals in a bit more detail. He posted a couple of weeks ago some informative comments.

Check for yourself but I've found that MM has been involved in quite a few lawsuits either as part of THG or on a more personal level either directly or indirectly. If you're a decent businessman, you should never need to sue anyone - it's really bad for business. It doesn't help sell Ingenuity if they have threatened to sue a former client or if they are known for suing. Not good.

hxxps://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/jct600-and-hut-group-billionaire-settle-court-case-over-classic-lamborghini/211400

[midasx] 30/1/2022 17:38

Nasdaq up over 3% on Friday. Institutional sector rotation out of growth into value has been indiscriminate over he last few weeks and months. Record results by Apple and others may put things into perspective somewhat!

Whitehead's shares probably targeted and gave the shorters an additional opportunity Friday before the Nasdaq staged a remarkable turnaround.

Very happy to have picked some up on Wed/Thursday and Friday last week.

Will look to add some more in the week to come!

[careful] 30/1/2022 17:32

What can MM say to reassure?


Either he really did remove 18 properties from the company balance sheet into his own personal ownwership, or he didn't.

According to the article he hardly handed any cash for the properties. he used the value of his share options and assumed some liabilities.

A buy and leaseback deal with himself.

Who decides the rent?
Think about it, MM is CEO and Chairman.
He would be tempted to agree a sky high rental agreement with the landlord...himself.

Just a single example from the article. He could relax everyone by telling us that is is not true.
So £200m debt was removed from the balance sheet after this deal.
Debt that to a large extent was owed to him.
He sold one of the properties for £100m

That is what the article explained.
Is it true, a simple question.

[boix] 30/1/2022 16:48

I agree with your sentiment.
That’s why I think he has to answer these concerns.
If there is a greater tech sell off, I might also take a position again but I really think he has to address these questions for the City sentiment to change.
Happy to be wrong but this issue isn’t going to fix itself without positive action from MM.
I don’t mind being stopped out especially at a higher price than the Fri close - that’s just part of controlling your risk although always better to bank a profit!
Let’s hope the greater markets stop their gyrations but I fear otherwise.
Regards

[kooba] 30/1/2022 16:42

There was a trading update two weeks ago ..what do you expect in the last two weeks of Jan on trading exactly ??Sorry you were stopped out pretty sure not the only one ..ask Whitehead. I'm only in small at 120p so thought timing was spot on ..maybe not if sentiment is further knocked by this ..if they're down tomorrow I wouldn't mind taking a few more.

[boix] 30/1/2022 16:29

It might seem unfair but MM has to answer the concerns.
Otherwise this will never stop.
I was stopped out yet again last Monday (@135.5p) but have held THG for several months.
I was looking to buy back next week at a lower price but after reading another damaging article I really think MM has to address these concerns rather than just employ yet more aggressive lawyers!
Either that or prove everyone wrong with an undeniably excellent set of results extremely quickly!!!!
But that’s just my view at the moment.
Others are entitled to hold a different view.
Regards