Safeland Share Discussion Threads

[topvest] 25/10/2006 21:45

Yes, maybe that the reason - still fairly illiquid. Thanks for pushing the price back up!

[hybrasil] 25/10/2006 10:41

topvest. I think the move to aim probably cost us a few holders . Those peps and isa things.
It certainly is lagging the property sector. Now that they have turned bought another 10k today.

[topvest] 24/10/2006 21:58

hybrasil - hi. It will be interesting to see what the Lipmans have in mind for this JV - could potentially start to transform SAF away from its property trading background into something very different. £50m of spending power to start with is a reasonable size. I've been a bit disappointed with Safeland over the last year, particularly with their shells where not much has happened at all. I suspect they will do something interesting though when the time is right. Patience needed here.

[hybrasil] 24/10/2006 06:47

the share price had dropped before the rns. Its merely market forces. Unusually the market makers hold a lot of stock in safeland and there havent been many buyers recently. I think there is everything positive about the news

[topvest] 23/10/2006 21:57

Interesting news today. Looks like Bizspace are looking at a new growth area! Not sure why the price has reacted so badly though..possibly reduces the chance of the company going private in the medium term, but quite happy msyelf to stick with the Lipmans!

[hybrasil] 10/10/2006 12:45

This is now one of very few property companies trading at a substantial discount to NAV

[hybrasil] 09/10/2006 11:19

I see the first big trade in these in ages went through on friday.

[hybrasil] 05/10/2006 06:18

I would not be surprised if the company were to go into the market and buy back a few shares

[hybrasil] 27/9/2006 09:58

topvest
I agree and bought some at 85p

[topvest] 19/9/2006 19:47

Looking better value now? Sales price dropping a bit prior to AIM admission for some reason.

[topvest] 20/8/2006 22:21

Yes, I agree Espazio looks a couple of years away from profit, but may be demerged if it starts to show promise. Exciting prospect if they can make it work. Big IF though!

Safeland will continue to operate at close to break-even I suspect (on a long-run basis) until trading conditions improve or some new opportunity comes along, but happy to stay put myself.

Used to hold shares in ROK - a very good company with a CEO who has transformed the company and the brand. I sold last year after holding for 2/3 years and making a very good profit. Possibly sold a little early, but I was concerned about a possible trading downturn which never actually materialised. Things seem to be going well. Not well supported from an asset perspective and a hefty pension deficit when I last looked, but very earnings positive.

[jeff h] 20/8/2006 20:41

Thanks for your thoughts and input Simon, I think it's fair value as I said and I've re-invested the proceeds from selling here into companies like Rok
which are substantially increasing profits and have clear growth mapped out.

Concerning current trading Ray Lipman said:-

"Over the past few years I have consistently advised you of the difficult
conditions prevailing within the property trading market. These conditions
continued to be apparent during the year under review and there is little sign
of them abating."

...so not a lot to celebrate there.

Espazio will probably lose money again this year....what's the £91k a year lease costs for an office in Italy for?

I still hold the demerged companies and hence have direct exposure to them, and like you hope for some action this year....Safeland's holdings in these
companies though are all 10% or less and may drop further if they issue more equity in any fund raising deals (as with Bizspace rights issues/placings)..
so I can't see much benefit to Safeland in the current year.

All in all fairly valued imo...but if things change for the better I'll be back!

[topvest] 19/8/2006 08:14

Well it's certainly not the bargain it was previously, but I suppose that could be said for all real estate stocks at the present time.

Here are my thoughts on asset values taken from the accounts.

NAV is 111p in the accounts - £20555k/18,500,530 shares.

However, there is a

- £500k uplift still to come through on the Bizspace sale - £6m cash versus £5.5m fair value at 31 March 2006;

- £16,387k of trading properties are held at cost; and

- £5,474k of freehold properties are also held at cost - presumably this is largely the cost of 94-96 Great North Road.

Therefore, I would conclude that in today's market it is more likely than not that the 111p is a floor valuation. Of course, it is impossible to know whether they have good trading stock or bad, but the Chariman's comments suggests the former "I am content with the stock we hold at present".

Interestingly, lots of cash has been coming in after the year-end with the £6m Bizspace sale, the Serviced Office Group share sale for £867k and the sale of some properties held as investment properties for £3,135k. This c£10m of cash will go a long way to wiping out most of their net debt. Gives them some flexibility as a property company doesn't it?

Also some thoughts on Espazio:

It is also woth pointing out that £536k of the losses are due to Espazio, the italian self storage company and c£2.6m of net assets. This company appears to still be fairly embryonic, but I suspect that Bizspace will be looking to demerge this as soon as they think that it is viable. Remains some risk here I suppose that this business never makes it, but one would have thought that the directors have a reasonable chance of succeeding given their Safestore pedigree.

Looking at the Espazio numbers - revenue has grown from £193k to £333k. Losses excluding depreciation have fallen from £505k to £383k, so slowly improving. Looks like they still have their two centres in Rome and Milan - see www.espazio.com

The other investments are just the seven demerged shell companies, of which only Leo Insurance has done anything to date. This is where I hope to see some action in the next year, given that Larry Lipman has now engineered a successful exit from both Hercules and Bizspace. I suspect he is therefore looking at plans for his next successful venture in the listed world.

[jeff h] 18/8/2006 13:28

Safeland fair value to me now and I've fully sold up.

The Directors all have high basic packages and then a bonus based on profit
levels, so even in bad times salary levels will always be a fair whack.

[topvest] 18/8/2006 13:12

Safeland off to AIM then. Annual Report received in the post today as well. Directors' remuneration a bit toppy again at £1,454k, but then again its effectively their company and they had done ok in difficulty property trading markets. Hope to see more transactions now that they have sold Bizspace and Hercules, Larry Lipman must be getting bored!

[topvest] 26/6/2006 22:03

Jeff H. I agree with your analysis. NAV 111p + a bit more on BIZ and SVO reflecting the increased ultimate selling price - fair value at 31 March +/- trading result in current year. Overall, a little disappointing on the results side as nothing new, but SAF are waiting it out for better trading conditions and will soon have lots of cash. Happy to hold mine. Would be nice to see some increased activity on the demerged companies. Given that all the old ones have now been cashed up, I suspect Larry will have some time to get those plans going now.

[jeff h] 26/6/2006 18:47

Don't agree with you there Hybrasil.

I think the Bizspace stake is shown at Fair Value (MV at 31/3/06 presumably)
under the £6.544m 'Available for Sale Investments' heading.

This heading will also include the Serviced Office Group stake and perhaps
the demerged co's stakes (Leo etc) although those are of immaterial value
anyway.

Biz & Svo where disposed of after the year end for approx £6.9m.

The only adjustments to be made in the net asset value would be for the difference between the £6.9m disposal figure less fair value at 31/3/06
...say about £0.4m and then some additional tax to be deducted from this additional £0.4m profit on disposal.

NAV hence may go up less than 2p (£0.4m less tax / 18.5m shares)

The movements in Fair Value have already been taken to Equity you can see this by comparing the Net Book Value of Other Investments (under UK GAAP) in the 2005 Annual Report = £3.238m (Biz £2.584m + Svo £0.618m + demergers £0.036m) to the 2006 IFRS Available for Sale Investments figure of £6.544m

The profit on disposal will be recycled in next years P&L a/c or Income Statement as it's called now, though this wont affect the Net Asset figure.

Incidentally I think I'm right in saying you occasionally visit the management
of some of the stocks you hold, have you ever spoke to LL etc?

[hybrasil] 26/6/2006 12:43

Todays accounts with asset value of 1.11 do not take into account the Bizspace profit. !!!!

[topvest] 19/5/2006 21:32

Anyone know when the results are expected this year? Be nice to get another demerger at some point. Expect they have been busy with Bizspace recently though.

[brakoll] 18/5/2006 22:43

So what causes a stock to quickly appreciate in value? Fundamentals? News? Management? Well yes, to a degree. But what REALLY moves a stock price northward that you just purchased?
Answer: A Huge volume of buyers having been directed to the emergence of that stock by a qualified service which has a reputation for doing so. THIS service does:

[jeff h] 18/5/2006 19:48

£5m...£6m??...mere bagatelle to a person of your means hybrasil?!!

A very positive move on your behalf today....results on the horizon...
should be interesting.

I was encouraged at the Interims with the large stock figure....means
they've bought properties which they feel they can sell on and make
money out of...set against that is the Italian storage business which I
feel has been a disappointment.

[hybrasil] 18/5/2006 08:25

Whatever Jeff
I bought another 10k Safeland this am!

[jeff h] 17/5/2006 08:31

£4.75m??...they got 6.6m shares so I make that £6m+ coming in on a bid
...not of tax consequences.

[hybrasil] 17/5/2006 08:06

Plus about £4,750,000 if the Bizspace offer goes through.