Lloyds Banking Share Discussion Threads

[maxk] 03/2/2019 12:26

It's amazing to think Japan has surrendered it's independence to get a trade deal with the €U.

[grahamite2] 03/2/2019 12:18

Overstating your case is a very good way of weakening it. The normal reaction is not, My God, that's awful - it is, Oh come off it.

It's amazing the remoaners haven't grasped this yet.

[patientcapital] 03/2/2019 12:10

I wondered when Mary Lou would start sabre rattling....Both Eire and HMG have repeatedly stated there is no desire or intention to create a hard border. The EU26/7 would therefore be responsible for the consequences if something came to pass on the Irish side. It is up to them frankly.

[bbalanjones] 03/2/2019 12:07

The Illusion of Free Trade;-



Brexit free-trade illusions from the 19th century:-

[tygarreg] 03/2/2019 12:04

54 days to Independence Day!

[tygarreg] 03/2/2019 12:01

Absolutey Bala bachden. No need for any damage to either. We all want free trade but we dont see why we have to give up freedom, control and sovereignty of Great Britain to get it. So let's leave and continue to buy and sell and cooperate and share mutually beneficial information and services. At the moment we have to pay 15b a year to be the biggest customer of the EU. They do buy off us as a last resort. Anyone who has dealt with the French know exactly how protectionist they are. So yes we do buy far more off them than they off us so they should be paying us rather than vice versa. At the moment we lose both ways! What other customer goes to a shop and pays to be allowed in the door. That doesn't happen around Llyn Tegid does it?

[grahamite2] 03/2/2019 11:57

So Project Fear takes yet another new direction.

There is, of course, no prospect whatsoever of riots in the event of no deal. The idea is wholly ludicrous.

[tygarreg] 03/2/2019 11:49

I think you are right. Many were easily swayed at Ref to keep going same way and stay in. After all no one likes change, do they!Anyway we all know the EU and its main figures a lot better now and we certainly don't like what we see. We also understand the remain project fear propaganda now and notice how anything bad is blamed on Brexit. We see how desperate they are to unearth something bad and then they score the odd own goal by thinking we will be put off by a days delay in the tomatoes coming from plastic city in Almeria. How could we survive that? We see how unemployment, unrest is sweeping through the older established EU and we think how lucky we are to escape the tyrrany!

[bbalanjones] 03/2/2019 11:47

careful:: Not many strides from Chlorinated Chicken to Whole cooked NHS. Sad. But it is on the Yanks Menu.

[careful] 03/2/2019 11:38

Reading todays Sunday Times.
I find the reading worrying for the UK.

The new deal recently signed bewteen the EU. and Japan starts on the 1st.Feb.
A market place of 635m people and almost on third of the Worlds GDP is a force to be reckoned with.

The reason that Nissan will not source its new car in Sunderland is thought to be under the new deal they could be now made in Japan and shipped into the EU. market direct.

Long term it must put into doubt the future of Honda, Toyota and Nissan. The CEO'S teamed up and went pleading to Theresa May a few months ago and were mocked by the likes os JRM and Farage.
Thatcher was so proud in the 1980's of this inward investment, creating much wealth and quality jobs in depressed areas.
Whilst the EU. were signing a mega deal with Japan that will damage the UK in the long term, Liam Fox managed to win a deal to buy chlorinated chicken from the USA.

[keyno] 03/2/2019 11:32

Pawsche:
You must have missed my post #857 following that of grahamite2's pointing out my error.

244774 of 244857 Edit
0 1 0
I stand corrected, grahamite2. Humble apologies, pawsche.

You are quite right pawsche. Memory banks failed me. Perhaps I was more cynical than you were but I didn't believe the EC would do much to improve life for the ordinary worker.

I was a poll clerk in London for Ref 1 and do remember - truly! - people coming in to vote totally baffled and not knowing which way to vote. Some even asked us what they should do. I seem to remember that The Sun newspaper, which was more influential then did a U-turn a week before voting, from in to out and swayed many of its readers. Presumably Murdoch had his reasons for switching.
Happy to stand corrected again!

[pawsche] 03/2/2019 11:12

@Keyno - 2 Feb '19 - 15:51 - 244762

Pawsche: the vote in Referendum 1 was to decide whether or not to join the EEC so not quite sure what you thought you were voting to decide - or maybe I misunderstood your post which read as follows:

I'm afraid that you're wrong. The UK joined the EEC (European Economic Community) in 1973, there was no referendum for that. In fact we had tried to join some years earlier but Charles de Gaulle said "Non!" and exercised his veto. The 1975 referendum was to decide whether we remained a member of the EEC or not.

The EEC was described as a "European Free Trade Area" and made out to be a purely trading organisation, and I (and the rest of the UK population excepting a few specialists in European Law plus Tony Benn and Peter Shaw) were kept very much in the dark, or more pertinently "lied to", concerning the "political" ramifications of joining something that was intended from the very start to become "The United States of Europe", ie the EU.

Hence I happily voted to remain in a free trade area, it was only after learning the "hidden" parts of "The Project" as part of my law degree that I discovered what I'd actually voted for.

HTH.

[xxxxxy] 03/2/2019 11:08

Mark B
Posted February 3, 2019 at 7:02 am | Permalink
Good morning.

The EU Commission does not care. All is cares about is the integrity of the ‘Project’;. It is happy to let the rEU27 suffer as policy is not decided in their respective parliaments, it is decided in Brussels and, not matter who you vote for things are not going to change. That is why I voted to Leave, I want our MP’s, government and parliament to decide.

The government, or more precisely the PM, is fixated on her ‘deal’, a misnomer if ever there was one. Parliament and the MSM are equally fixated with the so called ‘backstop̵7;, when in truth it is the whole thing that must be thrown out.

I am grateful that our kind host and many of his colleagues are working on an alternative proposal around a FTA. The sad thing is, it seems they are doing the job that government itself should be doing, if it hasn’t done so already. What our kind host and others are doing is working on a POSITIVE solution all the while those who wish us to Remain in the EU continue with their trademark NEGATIVITY. Had these poor souls been incharge at the dawn of mankind we would never have descended from the trees.

[xxxxxy] 03/2/2019 11:04

I did not vote Conservative and I think millions of others did not vote Conservative just for the Conservatives to get into bed with Labour.

The Rape of Democracy is occurring and there goes so many of the Conservative and Labour Party participating in this treachery.

Unforgivable and the people will remember.

The Parliament of Shame. The Parliament of QUISLINGS
Let us have done with it. LEAVE and WTO
Or the Conservative Party will soon be known as The Quisling Party
Conservative Party RIP 

[bbalanjones] 03/2/2019 10:55

5xy::

"Indeed, research by Deloitte has suggested that a ‘hard Brexit’ could do far more damage to the German car industry than our own."

Please explain WHY ANY damage needs to be done AT ALL. Madness.

[xxxxxy] 03/2/2019 10:42

Don’t believe all the car industry’s prophecies of Brexit doom

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) has swung into full ‘Project Fear’ mode with its latest claims that ‘UK Automotive (is) on red alert as ‘no deal’ threat sees manufacturing and investment plummet’ and ‘Brexit uncertainty has already done enormous damage to output, investment and jobs’. Not for the first time, the SMMT has gone completely OTT.
Let’s deal first with the actual data. UK car sales and production did fall sharply in 2018. But it is misleading, to say the least, to attribute to this to the ‘no deal’ threat. As the SMMT itself acknowledges, the global auto sector is reeling from multiple shocks, including the diesel scandals and a sharp decline in demand from China. Indeed, when commenting earlier on the UK sales figures, the SMMT barely mentioned Brexit at all.
Some further context: 2016 marked a cyclical peak for the UK car industry, with sales flattered by cheap finance deals, the launch of new models and the last of the pent-up demand from the recession. A correction was overdue, regardless of Brexit. And while the UK was the weakest of the major European markets in 2018, sales data ;from the European trade association ACEA show that the decline of 6.8% here was matched in both Norway and Sweden.
What about the reported collapse in ‘investment’, down almost half on 2017 to ‘just £588.6 million’? To be fair, there is plenty of evidence from other sectors of the economy that Brexit uncertainty has made companies more cautious, and it would be no surprise if this has impacted the auto sector too. But these statistics still need a major health warning. They are not hard numbers for actual spending.
Instead, they are ‘SMMT calculations based on new, publicly announced investment decisions in 2018 covering genuine commitments to fresh spend on new product, tooling, equipment or facilities’. Even taken at face value, these numbers are likely to be highly volatile from year to year.
A lot has also been made of the shutdowns planned for April as a precaution against ‘no deal disruption. Again, a sense of perspective is badly needed. Jaguar Land Rover (JLR), for example, is planning to extend its usual seasonal shutdown by just one week. To put this in context, JLR closed its main Solihull plant for two weeks in October last year, due largely to the slump in demand from China. It also extended the usual break over the Christmas and New Year holiday period by one week.
Nonetheless, all of this has been used as evidence that a ‘no deal’ Brexit in particular represents an existential threat to the UK automotive industry. Unfortunately, the sector has form here. The car makers warned in 2000 that they would leave the UK if we did not adopt the euro. Indeed, Nissan was still threatening to do so in 2004.
Of course, leaving the EU is potentially a bigger shock than remaining outside the single currency. Nonetheless, the comparison is valid. Membership of the euro would also reduce barriers to trade with the EU (by reducing currency risk and transactions costs, and increasing price transparency). However, it would only do so at the cost of losing control over key aspects of the economy (independence on interest rates and exchange rate flexibility) and potentially being on the hook for large budget payments to other members (the Greek bailouts). Car makers might only care about the former, but politicians also need to think about the latter. At the very least, the fact that the auto industry has cried wolf before makes it perfectly reasonable to ask whether it is doing so again.
To be clear, I understand why many businesses, including car makers, are worried about Brexit and especially the extreme ‘no deal’ scenarios: the potential for new tariff and non-tariff barriers, including border delays that might disrupt complex just-in-time supply chains. They could do without the hassle and additional costs. But there are two key points here.
First, there are still many ways in which these new barriers could be minimised. Both sides would have a strong vested interest in keeping border delays to a minimum, and tariffs may not be as big an issue as many assume either.
For example, the worst case assumes that, outside the EU’s Customs Union, manufacturers would have to pay the (actually quite low) tariffs on components every time these cross the new UK-EU border. As it happens, the number of times that this happens is usually exaggerated. But in any event, this ignores the many trade facilitation arrangements that already apply to parts imported from outside the EU, such as inward processing relief, which should also protect UK-EU supply chains from cumulative duties.
Tariffs on the finished cars themselves could be more of a problem, though this may also depend on the proportion of inputs coming from the EU. But if we are talking about worst case scenarios, these usually include another large fall in the value of sterling which could maintain the competitiveness of UK exports. Indeed, research by Deloitte has suggested that a ‘hard Brexit’ could do far more damage to the German car industry than our own.
The second key point is that even if there is some additional disruption in the short term, a ‘no deal’ Brexit could simply be an alternative stepping stone to a free trade agreement that addresses all the auto sector’s concerns. In other words, even a disorderly exit, while clearly far from ideal, need not have any lasting impact on investment or jobs.
To sum up, I’m not going to tell the SMMT how to make a car. But I do think it’s right to question what the industry is assuming about how Brexit might play out, and to view their darkest warnings with a healthy dose of scepticism.

[bbalanjones] 03/2/2019 10:14

What an anniversary - such great youthful memories. . . . .

On February 3, 1959, American rock and roll musicians Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J. P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson were killed in a plane crash near Clear Lake, Iowa, together with pilot Roger Peterson.

[keyno] 03/2/2019 10:13

The poor dabs won't be troubled to have to find dog food during the rioting then, bb. Another huge relief for us all..........

[bbalanjones] 03/2/2019 10:10

gnr:: Tried and Failed? Who really knows; corruption has and does proliferate in all human systems. Can we find an "Honest programmer" for an AI Governmental System?

[bargainbob] 03/2/2019 10:06

Keyno ,

The corgis are all dead as I understand .

[bargainbob] 03/2/2019 10:04

Diku ,

It's the Queen Vic but do not share this info.

[keyno] 03/2/2019 10:03

Nevertheless, so reassuring for us proles to know that Brenda and Phil will be tucked safely away in order that they can continue their luxurious lifestyle whilst our own 90+ year olds will have to fight other looters for a crust of bread in what remains of the nearest Tesco Express.

Will they be taking the dorgs?

[diku] 03/2/2019 09:42

It is a secret location but The Sunday Times knows it!!!...

[bargainbob] 03/2/2019 09:40

Diku ,

It is ok Phillips not driving .

"What about the joe public?...



Plan to evacuate the Queen after a no-deal Brexit
Whitehall has drawn up secret plans to evacuate the Queen in the event of riots following a no-deal Brexit The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh to be moved out of London to a secret location, which The Sunday Times has agreed not to disclose."