Kier Share Discussion Threads

[ontheforks] 01/6/2021 06:30

Well wally as I've told you before I'm in the buy two get one free scheme £34 every week so the amount of shares I got for £4.09 is hardly news at ten and as I've pointed out due too the price crashing down I've managed to get my average down now after six years to around £1.40 also I've never said this is a great investment to anyone I've also stated I'm prepared to lose the money I've invested I've also stated all I need is the company to survive and that's what has happened the funny thing is people like yaself were saying the house building side was dragging kier down now living is sold people like you are claiming it was the best thing in kier.... Which shows exactly what you're doing here and on other boards is all lies and claiming this is a hobby and I know more than new investors makes you sound bitter and sad tbh pal

[bathboy2] 31/5/2021 22:29

Trading kiers shares its like a game of jenga, they build up and 1 small block removed and it comes crashing down hard, material issues and price rises, is many small blocks

[easy45] 31/5/2021 21:53

Wally the Samaritans Whatever you're going through, call them free any time, from any phone, on 116 123. Best of luck!!

[wallywoo] 31/5/2021 16:18

Lol nah mate. Just a hobby that follows on from the research I did on Carillion and Interserve, Connaught and Jarvis before that. You say what a great investment this is but history doesn't agree with you. Sure they have managed to survive a little longer by tapping shareholders again. Still doesn't make them a good investment.


It's a sad fact that this sector has lost more investors money than any other. Unfortunately many new investors don't know that. It's a good job I do!!! Many of the smaller construction contracts are done on a design and build basis for a fixed price (incl the many school contracts Kier win). Inflation will hit Kier hard again over the next 12 months.

It's funny the share rampers don't like me mentioning that. You would of thought if they were genuine Pi's, you would want to know!!!

Really struggling to understand how a pi who bought the last RI at 409p is pleased with his investment??? How come forks? It's a silly game to play to continue buying a company that hasn't generated any cash for 5 years. A bounce off the bottom is a good chance to sell again.

No company spends money faster than a inefficient builder with inflation running rampant

[ontheforks] 31/5/2021 15:01

So wally Woodford anyone investing in kier is stupid is that your opinion... Funny thing is you advised me to sell all my share for £2000 and yet last time I looked they were worth nearly £9000 think you need professional help pal kier is like an illness to you I'm beginning to suspect someone interfered with you on a kier job in the past

[wallywoo] 31/5/2021 12:55

Certainly Peter, this is what mgns (a proper investment) say on their trading statement;

"In addition, the Group's strong cash position has also further improved and it is now expected that the average daily net cash for the full year will be in excess of GBP180m."

They state average daily cash which is the best option and give a forecast for the year. All Kier have said for the last 2 years is "debt is as expected". Kier only state average monthly debt which is always 10 to 30 percent better than daily. Both mgns and BBY both state their off balance sheet debt, which Kier are equally opaque about. Kier never give any indication of cash at period end until they absolutely have to in the period end accounts. Even then they say they have positive cashflow, when the balance sheet clearly shows they don't.

That's just 1 example. There are many. To put it plainly Kier have been saying how successful they are for years. The share price keeps falling, since they are clearly not.

Kier are certainly not well capitalised at -£300m net tangible assets after the equity issue (Kier had -£116m net tangible assets after the last RI, so they start at a much worse position than in 2019). They just have some more shareholders money to spend, which I have no doubt they will.

[stdyeddy] 31/5/2021 11:20

Peter, wally, thinks Kie should update us every month. Kier is in a high newsflow period with RNSs relating to the sale of KL, the cash-raise, the general meeting in a a little over a fortnight and year-end a fortnight after that. Kier has given plenty of 'state-of-the-business' updates throughout. Still not enough for mad-wolly though.

Wallz, I see that you are working your ar$e off here (3 troll messages for every investor mssg) and elsewhere (eg as steve72 on Lse AND your brand new tomtum poster identity on here!), trying to troll on a market-closed day again. You are a very sad and desperate attention seeker! Investors remain comfortable here now -- Kier is very well capitalised now, for the first time in about five years.

Anyone reading your comments should take into account all of the false claims and scare-mongering which you've written on here since November, during which time, not just one but EVERY negative claim that you've made has been proven false.

ALSO, there is the small matter of your TOTAL lack of integrity; when are you going to make the apology you promised to all of the investors whom you have misled about the Kier shareprice staying under 100p??

AND I would like to remind everyone that quite apart from the lies that you've told on here for two years, you lied to us for six months with an increasingly elaborate falsehood about a 'short' which you claimed you were progressively increasing, with prices and average numbers, as evidence of your conviction about the Kier shareprice. Now you have admitted that that was all a lie.

You clearly have a dishonest agenda here. And you're more than a little bit weird!

[petersw1] 31/5/2021 11:13

Would you kindly point to some examples of companies in this sector that do as you say?

[tomtum1] 31/5/2021 10:43

Is hamhamhamham1 over here? If he is its going down the guy is a jinx

[wallywoo] 31/5/2021 09:40

Lol forks, your company Kier has had to raise money 2.5 years ago and this month to survive. They have had to issue 459 percent more shares in that time, or they would of been bust.


And you think posters who have been saying they are a money pit for all that time are terrible and said rubbish??? The only thing we have been wrong about is stupidity of investors who have paid out more money again and again to allow this money pit and inefficient builder to survive longer (IMO there will be a surprise or two with who has bailed them out this time).


This is a awful investment that have a huge number of shares in issue, And still have not been able to generate even £1 of cash for more than 5 years (and had to sell lots of good assets along the way). Their net tangible assets will still be (-£300m) ish at year end, depending on how much cash they spent in H2!!

Travis Perkins news is not company specific, it is industry specific. It shows a worrying trend for anyone investing in the construction industry.

And yes Peter, you would expect Kier to announce H2 expected figures and a indication of expected debt. All good investments keep investors informed on future forecasts (they will have accurate cashflow forecasts for the year end by now). Kier leave news to the very last minute and give no information on expected debt.

[ontheforks] 31/5/2021 08:23

Wally and zico have no credibility after there performance the last couple of years your not here to help anyone apart from yourselves as for travis perkins there prices have always been higher than most building merchants I myself use buildbase and supprising enough BQ and wickes often come in cheaper as well which is funny considering there owned by builders merchants

[petersw1] 30/5/2021 18:35

Why would anyone expect an update on H2 before it has even finished?It isn't something that I've seen any of the companies I follow do unless there is something exceptional and material to report.Looking back I see that Kier in fact seem to be very prompt at giving updates a day or two after the end of their financial year ends.

[zicopele] 30/5/2021 18:26

Well wally...I have just mentioned €10m pension costs, £10m costs for sale of KL and £12m costs for underwriting Share issue.

These will presumably all come off the bottom line for current period.

The derampers say just look forward and discount all these costs are they are in the past.

Cant see it myself. There is always one more exceptional cost with Kier.

[stutes] 30/5/2021 15:27

BBC News - Travis Perkins warns of price rises amid shortage of raw materials


Hopefully K has covered the risk of inflation?

[wallywoo] 30/5/2021 14:14

Lol Stdy trying his absolute hardest to bully cynics off this BB.

Zico is spot on, the share price is not significantly higher. It is currently artificially high to ensure the equity issue is successful. However, this level will not be maintained once 284m shares are issued in a few weeks (175 percent more than today).

The chances that the full year results will be good are slim to none. They have given no information at all on H2, which seems strange since it is just 1 month away from being completed. Anyone who knows Kier, knows that they are hiding more bad news.

Then you have inflation and shortages which is really hitting construction hard. Latest;

BBC News - Travis Perkins warns of price rises amid shortage of raw materials


I can see real share price pressure ahead!!

[stdyeddy] 30/5/2021 08:11

Up a few pence? Up 300% since November. Call it a few pence if you like. You are silly.

A ramper? I'm long here; happy to admit it. But what about you sicko? Not short, and not long. So why are you here? You like to mention 'mental health' a lot. Is that your issue. You're here because you're mentally unwell? That would actually make a lot of sense.

[zicopele] 29/5/2021 22:32

3 years ago Kier was 900p plus. Now, 115p and you creaming it because it went up a few pence.

You are a ramper...nothing else. Kier is a dud and always will be a dud.

[stdyeddy] 29/5/2021 19:12

No it doesn't. Three years of you saying the 'sky is falling'. Carry on with your bitter personal vendetta, but Kier is re-capitalised now. Your silly comments are totally irrelevant.

[zicopele] 29/5/2021 14:49

Where do those costs sit on the P&L?

Makes a nonsense of the PE of 3 which rampers keep talking about.

[stdyeddy] 29/5/2021 14:03

Not like your corpulent carcass; I hear no one wants it.

[zicopele] 29/5/2021 13:08

More like £320m but what the hell.. What is £10m between friends?

And still in debt. Lots of costs associated with the restructuring. £12m underwriting fees, £10m to pension. £10m costs associated with sale of KL.

Hmmm...everyone wants a piece of the carcass.

[stdyeddy] 29/5/2021 11:18

Some positive press coverage this weekend for Kier -- completion of the KL sale sooner than expected. Obviously there's some costs attached, so more like £330m pumped in than the £350m in the headline below, but still more than enough for Kier to finally get out from under its debt and make good profits. Current forward p/e of 3 -- a stone cold bargain that should treble imv.

Sale of housing arm clears way for Kier to pump £350m into business next month

[zicopele] 29/5/2021 09:01

Bathboy I believe those monies were paid. Check the latest accounts.

[bathboy2] 29/5/2021 00:43

Kier in their July 2020 results agreed to 26m extra going towards the pension deficit in December 2020, and 9m extra per year, starting July 2021 until the deficit is sorted, part of the recovery plan, cannot find if the December 2020 payment was made, assumed it was

[petersw1] 28/5/2021 21:35

bathboy2, I take it you are refering to this article hxxps://www.constructionnews.co.uk/contractors/kier/kier-completes-110m-sale-of-housebuilding-business-28-05-2021/

There are two valuations of the pension schemes. The one that approximately corresponds with the Construction News article is the triennial valuation that was done on 31st March 2019. That showed a deficit and as a result Kier agreed with the trustees to a recovery plan including the 10m contribution from the KL sale. Other payments that are part of that plan are £4.5m in FY21 and £9m p.a. from FY22 onwards.
It seems Construction News has done a rough calculation based on that valuation and the contributions made so far.

The other valuation is done as part of Kiers accounts and currently shows a surplus exactly as stdyeddy says.
I take it that if that surplus continues then the next triennial valuation will also show a surplus and Kier will be able to reduce their contributions.