Jpmorgan Russian Securit... Share Discussion Threads

[loganair] 09/3/2022 15:31

Extrader - There are now many sources reporting the phones calls or not.

[cc2014] 09/3/2022 15:23

The £69.6m JP Morgan Russian Securities (JRS) trust share price rose 105% on Wednesday (9 March) morning, before retreating slightly and ending up 58.5% up by noon.

Analysts dismissed the move, with Matthew Read, senior analyst at QuotedData, calling it "nonsensical".

"The Moscow Stock Exchange remains closed and so there are no ‘real' prices, even for locals, let alone overseas investors," he said. "What we can say is that the value remains seriously impaired and there is no sign of this abating."


The company has a net asset value of 40.1p per share, but the share price hit 187p at one point.

"Our best guess is that it is most likely private investors thinking it is oversold and that the current price reflects very little volume," said Read. "However, we place a lot more faith in the NAV."

The analyst added that it is "somewhat distasteful" that a small number of investors are trying to make a quick buck on the back of crisis of Ukraine.

The trust is down substantially following the invasion of Ukraine, with its share price 79.4% lower over one month.

"JRS has bounced after a big fall, but given the huge volatility we are seeing and the total lack of clarity on what will happen next I would question anybody who has much conviction on where things will go from here," said Pascal Dowling, partner at Kepler Partners. "We are in the thick of it right now and discretion may be the better part of valour for those who are tempted to try and play the peaks and troughs."


"somewhat distasteful". I agree. Anyone investing in JRS should be ashamed of themselves.


My best guess is it was some mad bot program which was asked to prioritorise price over volume. Just like POLY at £14.

[extrader] 09/3/2022 15:20

This may be the article you're thinking of, loganair



As ever, 'consider the source', but it seems to tie in with what's in the public domain.

[loganair] 09/3/2022 15:15

It seems to me a good move by Putin, he is encouraging people who have withdrawn their roubles from the bank to now buy gold from the same bank with these roubles.

The banks in the first place have bought this gold from the Russian gold miners in roubles.

[dil 21] 09/3/2022 15:15

They aren’t including anything listed on the Russian exchange.

[my retirement fund] 09/3/2022 15:10

NAV 38 pence and share price in double digits, what am I missing ?

[smithie6] 09/3/2022 14:42

At first sight it looks a stupid/strange move from Putin, encouraging people to sell Rubles....which has already fallen a lot in value & the Rus Govt wants to lift up its value.

By selling rubles, it helps weaken the ruble.

Perhaps the plan is to sell some of the Russ. Govt. gold to obtain Rubles (or/and dollars ??) to use to pay interest due on Govt. bonds & hence avoid a debt default.

(& then 6 month later go to people's homes & seize back the gold for the state ! Je je !; & if not given up, a free holiday in Siberia !)

[loganair] 09/3/2022 14:39

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday signed a law that exempts individuals from paying 20% VAT on the purchase of gold.

The measure is meant to provide support to Russian citizens, looking to invest their rubles.

Previously, when buying physical gold, Russians had to pay 20% from the purchase in VAT.

[soleman1] 09/3/2022 14:21

I think it's starting to move due to Ukrainian spokesperson indicating they are ready to make a deal

[smithie6] 09/3/2022 14:20

..share price

Are we off again ?!

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& with USA open soon phps we will see some buyers

[loganair] 09/3/2022 14:18

I don't know how true this is, I've heard that since Russia went into the Ukraine both the Saudi's and the UAE have been refusing to take phone calls from President Biden while they have been talking to both Putin and the Ukrainian's.

[loganair] 09/3/2022 14:04

This would most probably not have happened if, when after Stalin had died, Russia asked to join NATO in the 1950's NATO had let them join. The only Western leader in favour was good old Churchill.

[smithie6] 09/3/2022 14:00

Russians sure were anti social in occupying various countries after WW2

& then using tanks & bullets to put down uprisings.

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NATO
I'm all in favour. Together the democratic western countries are much stronger together (& with the USA !!)
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That a country of 140 millions kills people & shells homes in a country of 40 million because they claim they value human life & security, is of course completely nuts.
If Putin were to retire the world would be a much safer place.

[rick158] 09/3/2022 13:25

Russia has every right to feel secure, as does Ukraine. The only way that Ukraine can feel secure is by joining Nato and preferably also in the longer term the EU. Russian guarantees are worse than useless as the last two weeks have shown.

[the millipede] 09/3/2022 12:50

It is entirely possible, had NATO not expanded eastwards, that Russia would have felt emboldened over the years to take back territory that it used to control.

We might currently be staring down Russian tanks in Estonia, or Hungary, had NATO disbanded. It is really impossible to know but it is critical to all discussions to point out that Russia is attacking a non NATO country. They have not dared attack any NATO member.

Edited to add: Moreover, while Russia has a right to feel secure, it is not at all clear to me why that right should trump the wishes of Ukraine, an independent sovereign nation.

[smithie6] 09/3/2022 11:41

...many good points

[extrader] 09/3/2022 11:31

Loganair

Agreed ! Thatcher advised Reagan to assure the Russians that 'you are entitled as we are to feel secure '.

Per the Spectator

Western leaders missed a historic opportunity in the early 1990s when their relations with Russian leaders were based on trust. Mikhail Gorbachev declared in his ground-breaking 1988 United Nations speech that people of every country had the right to decide for themselves what kind of political and economic system they wanted. In 1989 the peoples of East-Central Europe took him at his word, as those countries became non-communist and independent and the Berlin Wall fell without a shot being fired by a Soviet soldier.

By 1992 there was no communist country in Europe, no international communist movement, no Warsaw Pact – and no Soviet Union. The reasons for Nato’s existence had evaporated. There should have been fresh security structures devised to preserve European peace. Building on the experience of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, the aim should have been a security architecture embracing the United States and Canada along with all the European countries, including newly independent Ukraine and, crucially, Russia.

There was never the least chance of Nato attacking Russia militarily unless a Nato country was attacked. But its extension to Russia’s state borders has led to feelings of humiliation and apprehension in Russian military-security circles. Democratic Russian politicians warned in the 1990s that Nato enlargement would have baleful consequences for their country’s political development, but they were ignored.

For those who thought that joining the Nato alliance was necessary to combat possible Russian expansionism, this has been a self-fulfilling prophecy. Today, Nato is far from redundant, though that doesn’t make its endless expansion politically wise. And the Russian leadership has already achieved the opposite of what they intended by strengthening support for joining Nato in non-member states.

A failure of statesmanship...on both sides.

AIUI

[smithie6] 09/3/2022 11:22

Extrader
I dont think that Ukr promoted the use of Hungarian by areas with Hungarian speakers. I understand there was some friction between Ukr & Hungary because Hungary felt that the use of Hungarian was a bit suppressed by Ukr.

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"you can see that Kiev/Kyiv was 'poking the bear'."

I agree.

(After the independence vote by the Donbas region, with strong support (% that voted ??) Ukr should have taken action to peacefully resolve that problem. If needed by giving them independence, noting that it was a bear they were dealing with & Russia was supporting the fighters against Ukraine. The EU was partly to blame by goading Ukr not to give in 1 inch to Russia in the Donbas problem.

[orchestralis] 09/3/2022 11:19

Possibly rising too quickly, might be dropped to trigger stop losses.

[smithie6] 09/3/2022 11:14

Price action sure is strong.
I guess the mkt thinks it is way under valued.

[extrader] 09/3/2022 11:14

Seems only fair !
Ukraine was actively (and rather crassly/provocatively) discouraging use of Russian (8m ethnic speakers/17% of population approx.), whilst encouraging English and use of EU languages (it has Hungarian and Romanian ethnic minorities).

Imagine telling Catalans they couldn't use their own language and you can see that Kiev/Kyiv was 'poking the bear'.

AIUI

[loganair] 09/3/2022 11:08

It was the West, NATO and the American's who were not agreeing to this, and therefore Ukraine not willing to agree.

Remember NATO is not about the security of Europe it is purely and simply an anti-Russian organisation and really needed to have been disbanded after the USSR fell apart.

[smithie6] 09/3/2022 11:02

....so, none of this invasion was at all necessary, if Ukraine had agreed to these things in advance, which in my view are fairly acceptable/understandable.

(All the destruction & 2 million refugees for nothing !)

:-(

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In any case, joining the EU wasn't going to happen for ages, if ever.
Spain for example originally voted against Rumania joining the EU & only changed their vote because the EU gave Spain 7000 million €. Spain does not want poorer countries to join because it means that Spain would not receive so much money from the EU, since money would go to the new poorer country instead.
If the Ukraine were to join the EU then would then have to ask if western Russia should also join !!! Arghh ! Then Turkey. & Morrocco &.... !!

[loganair] 09/3/2022 10:59

What maybe the final outcome that could be acceptable to both Russia and Ukraine:

1. Ukraine agrees not to join either NATO or the EU.
2. Ukraine accepts Crimea as being part of Russia.
3. Russia agrees to Donbass remaining as part of Ukraine, in return the Ukraine puts back into its constitution that the Donbass returns to being an autonomous region of the Ukraine and in this area the Russian language can officially be used and taught in schools.

[smithie6] 09/3/2022 10:50

Bondholder

Those apparent words from Maria Zakharova as a Russian Govt. rep. are big news imo. Fingers crossed that Russia is softening, but that should be backed up by it stopping shelling of residential areas !

(If Russia is becoming more willing to do a deal with Ukraine it will imo only be due to Ukraine destroying so many Russian tanks, vehicles, helicopters....)