International Consolidat... Share Discussion Threads

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 14:18

Is there no way, say if was diluted by 50%, so double the shares and the gov own half, then AIG just do some kind of share buy back over a period of time, buying back the govs shares and then removing them from circulation? So ending up with the same number of shares on the market as before the trouble?
Am I being naive?

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 14:10

With a stake comes some influence over the the company and its spending and divis, etc I would have thought?
Apd tax free will be needed as well to coax people in the air initially I would imagine.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 14:03

Ham....if that is the case why take a stake, which damages the business.
Just provide them with an interest free loan, or even APD tax breaks.

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 14:02

It’s an open market Ham. Think dragons den. Whoever accepts the least cut of the pie for the most Moolah gets the cut.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 14:02

VS is 51% owned by Branson and 49% by Delta. Do you think he will stuff Delta by selling a stake to UK GOV ?

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 14:01

Possibly yes, but hmg will want to get out as soon as poss and would settle just for their money back I suspect. They are not here profit I believe, but to prop up then get out asap.

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 13:59

That’s unless they are looking to bail out at multiples of current market cap? Could see BA split out of IAG at the end of this which would get my vote. A great post brexit blue chip. Maybe this is what HMG have in mind.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 13:56

Smithy.....makes sense to me .

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 13:53

My guess is Qatar won’t want to see their existing stake diluted much further. Any dilution will hurt them just as much will it not and significantly limit any upside as HMG will be selling the gain. I would say it a certainty they will want to do this, rather than HMG step in, dilute then benefit massively from the growth in stock price.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 13:52

This is a prime example of unfair competition.

The GOV enforces shutdown of businesses, thereby financially damaging them.
It then offers to support the very businesses that have been damaged but wants to financially benefit from that support. However, those businesses that are not quoted on the FTSE, don't have to worry about GOV taking a stake in their companies.

This affects businesses such as IAG, that have been carefully managing their finances, as well those those that have not.

The alternative, is to allow those businesses to continue trading and not to impose self isolation and shutting down of SME's.

Then it would be survival of the fittest, which of course would include people, as well as companies.

GOV should either support everyone, or support no one.

Years ago UK GOV owned BA to but they sold it to the public. It was only when it became a quoted company that it started to become profitable.

Governments have never done well owning companies.

[careful] 21/3/2020 13:35

Much of the fantasy wealth in shares and pension funds all of sudden evaporates.

Watching those presenters on CNBC, feeling so smart and smug when the Dow was 29,000.
Cramer urging everyone to buy Apple when the company was stupidly valued at $1.4 Tr.
How stupid, the have halved.
The idiot does not seem to understand that smartphones with all other fancy apps will become so cheap within 10 years they will give them away with Cornflakes.

He has caused many to lose fortunes.
And it is not just the virus.

[sr2day] 21/3/2020 13:28

IAG will not be bailed out by the UK govt.if it does get any funding it will be in exchange for equity.If it needs a rescue package IAG will have to decide who to choose.it could be the EU,UK.or QATAR.the share price will depend on the dilution.

[watfordhornet] 21/3/2020 13:27

Very positive Willie has that stanceHe would look foolish going cap in hand in future.I wonder whether the cargo traffic will soften the blow - as someone said China will have a huge backlog of goods to ship

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 13:23

And the gov taking a stake of a limited number of floated company (which has an open market process for adding shareholders) is I imagine a more logical step than taking a stake in tens of thousands of private company, eg a pub or theatre.

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 13:21

One problem. Willie Walsh could tell them to go swing. If IAG refuse to issue rights, government have little other option than buy on the open market.

[careful] 21/3/2020 13:18

HMG are in a difficult position.
Ambrose Evans Pritchard in todays Telegraph thinks that HMG is right to embrace socialism to save capitalism.

The government is obligated to save the real economy, jobs and businesses.
They must also keep the counties finances healthy.

Unfortunately they will not prioritise the shareholders interests. They are likely to take a stake in exchange for support.
Long term HMG and the taxpayer could do well out of this, a sort of nationalisation with some compensation.

Shareholders will take a hit.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 13:06

Defo not. The gov is offering small businesses to pay 80% of their wages, mortgage holidays, removing rates, vat deferring and pressuring land lords who take a mortgage holiday to pass on to the renter. Plus offer loans to give cash to tide over.
Yes this may not seem enough but its quite a lot really for a state to do.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 12:54

ham.......These companies are not failing because of anything they have done.
It is not their fault that borders are being closed by governments, or that UK GOV is forcing citizens to self isolate.

If GOV's introduce these restrictions, they have to support the businesses that are affected and not seek a financial advantage.

May be they should also say the same to the thousands of SME's...you can have the support but we want a part of your business !

Would it be acceptable for GOV to own thousands of pubs, restaurants, clubs, bars , theatres etc because of this mess ?

[toon1966] 21/3/2020 12:52

Some good advice Ham, engage with you ‘brain’ and do your homework before spouting your self opinionated garbage...

[loganair] 21/3/2020 12:49

The UK government is drawing up plans to buy equity stakes in airlines and other companies hardest hit by the coronavirus crisis after being warned that the economic packages it has announced so far will not be enough to save them.

The plans would see the UK taxpayer inject billions of pounds into companies including British Airways in exchange for shares that would eventually be sold back to private investors, according to three people briefed on the proposals.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:45

Barclays didn't get a bailout coz of the 'loans' from the middle East.
Anyway,.my point is you cannot give money to business who do well when you give a loan or take a stake in a business which is doing bad. Thats rediculous, you end up paying double and making one twice as superior to the other for future competition.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 12:43

Ham.....the banks were substantially restricted in their ability to trade post financial crisis and this restriction was due to the GOV shareholding.

No one benefited from this. I was an RBS shareholder and I am still involved in legal claims against the bank, that have not been fully resolved.

There is also the matter of the EU restrictions on share ownership for EU airlines, which IAG is.

Now if the EU lifted these restrictions, I suspect that Qatar may see an opportunity for further investment, which would help IAG..
If they do not lift the restrictions , how would UK GOV take a share of IAG ?
They couldn't just dilute those shares on Non EU shareholders and if it meant that with UK GOV's investment, the number of Non EU shareholders went above the EU rules...then what ? IAG would no longer comply.

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 12:42

Ham, no share scheme for employees outside of IAG management.

[toon1966] 21/3/2020 12:38

Sorry Ham but you really need to do your homework before typing your cr@p. It was HSBC who stated they did not need a UK Gov bailout as they are essentially a global operator, much like Barclays who also did not get a Gov bailout. Lloyd’s and RBS are UK banks who needed the bailout otherwise our economy would have collapsed.