International Consolidat... Share Discussion Threads

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:34

I don't know if IAG does share schemes for employees, so some might get hit twice, if lost job and share price diluted.
I don't think companies should be allowed to offer these share schemes, it encourages employees to be wholly invested on the future of the company. Eggs, basket, etc.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:28

I think the gov about broke even maybe on the banks, profited on Lloyds, lost on RBS, and the banks market capital in total went back up (relative to their size post asset sales). The only sufferers were the share holders, they always will be and that's the risk of investing.
Oh yeah, the other losers obviously were the staff let go to cut costs.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:26

So why didnt HSBC get anything when the gov helped lloy and RBS?
Yes morally I can see your point, but in real life, any company who takes a loan and the gov gets a stake have paid a price already.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 12:25

ham......and how did that work out for UK GOV and the banks ?

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 12:23

Smithy....I think your point about compensation for not accepting a bailout may be valid, if IAG do NOT accept financial support but other airlines do, specifically in other countries.

If other airlines are supported bu their governments on more favourable terms that that offered by UK GOV, it could be argued that IAG have been treated unfairly and that other airlines have had more favourable treatment which may go against EU and USA competition laws.

Trump has already complained about Emirates for example and how they are receiving state support. ( not proven I might add).

So, if AA (for example) gets financial support from Trump without having to give up any ownership of the company but other EU airlines , such as IAG , Lufthansa etc are not offered the same benefit.......is this unfair, when the economy starts to recover ?

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:21

Same as they did with the banks. Keep them on the leash until stake bought back out.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:20

No, they are maybe just getting a better control of the loan by taking a stake, rather than just flat lending the money and powerless to influence what IAG do with money and divis, etc

[toon1966] 21/3/2020 12:20

...and you know that for sure m1? Let’s see what your beloved Yanks do to help out their industries...

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 12:15

ham....if airlines need financial help and GOV is seeking to take a share of the company in return for a loan, they are seeking to profit.

Rather than support a business that employs thousands of people.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:14

Owning any shares any where is buyer beware. They come with no guarantees.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 12:13

I don't see how the 2500 pm wage support is helpful to airlines who are asking staff to take unpaid leave.

If they accept the 2500 deal , they would have to pay back 500 in tax plus national insurance , pensions, holiday pay etc etc and employees could not go and try to find interim work elsewhere.
In addition, if IAG is still paying employees,such as cabin crew, what work can they get them to do ?

With unpaid leave, companies have to pay nothing, employees can try to find work elsewhere, such as the NHS. So for companies like IAG the 2500 support is actually not helpful

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:13

I do not see the gov profiteering out of this situation. They may recoup some here but lose way more elsewhere.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 12:09

I think the EU are likely to srcap the competition laws during these times.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 12:08

Shameful to be honest, that UK GOV is seeking to take advantage of this situation by seeking to profit from it.

No doubt, some airlines will go bankrupt rather than sell to UK GOV.
Just shows me how appallingly bad BoJo and Sunak are with this.

[m1k3y1] 21/3/2020 12:06

The FT
UK government draws up plans to buy into airlines




I don't think there is any chance of WW accepting help from UK GOV if it means diluting the shareholding of IAG. In addition, it would surely go against EU competition laws for airlines.

I suspect he would sooner do a deal with Qatar for private funding.

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 12:02

Willie has said no thanks apparently. I reckon he will get an APD alleviation out of this.

[essentialinvestor] 21/3/2020 11:29

Lead story on the FT site has news.

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 11:25

I reckon BA and IAG will be doing contract freight work in the next month. China is going to go into overdrive producing medical supplies.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 11:16

I guess the companies who are listed with key workers will at least be guaranteed a decent turnover as their products must be in the public interest / demand.

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 11:07

The banks had zero collateral. VS, EasyJet and the other do. Landing slots are worth a fortune. Government needs to see them go to zero before any asset purchase agreement. More likely to be the BOE rather than government imho anyhow. What’s to say IAG won’t want to offer them a quid once this is over?

Willie hasn’t come back by the way to feather his retirement or out of altruism. He has come back to protect his significant wealth held in IAG shares. Not a chance in hell he will accept. VS, rumoured to be little other than a tax efficiency for the Virgin group may have a different view of it.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 11:00

Smithy. I am not sure IAG would get money for not taking a bail out. I didnt see any compensation going to say HSBC in 2008 when Lloyds and RBS took money.
IAGs reward if they didn't take a bailout is that their share price isn't diluted.

[smithys2019] 21/3/2020 10:54

You are all assuming IAG will do a rights issue. IAG May very well turn around and say they don’t want one and instead want financial compensation for the bailout of failing competitors.

[boix] 21/3/2020 10:43

If its like the 2008 bank bailouts “Shares in the three banks receiving government help fell sharply on the stockmarket, despite most shares in London rising today.” - The Guardian 13Oct08
Not good news although better than losing everything.
Sure the stake will be at a discount to Friday’s closing share price - if this happens it needs to be quick.

[hamhamham1] 21/3/2020 10:35

This is what may happen, all countries in the world may agree to wipe off debt incurred say since jan 1st this year related to corona. Can't see any countries unhappy with that?
It's been done before kinda for 3rd world debt.

[boix] 21/3/2020 10:20

Effectively a Government underwritten rights issue?At what price?