Flowgroup Plc Share Discussion Threads

[oilyminer] 14/12/2015 09:13

This has been running for 9 years, Another optimistic puff from Equity Developments. Why should we think it is different now?
The product should work - it should save money for users - how come the management can't sell the product.
Perhaps the managers are not good enough to get a marketing deal with a major supplier? - Maybe they won't let go?
Are they taking too much out of the company in salaries and 'expenses'?

[larry335] 14/12/2015 09:03

Blah blah. The reason the share price halved related to that RNS was in the headline "Reduction of boiler installations for 2015". Actually Zero sales have occurred in 2015.
And the reason given for that was the VAT issue. This is true :-)
What I note is that in a 2014 Newsletter, it states clearly that MCS accreditation was expected end 2014. Then no news on that. To get the accreditation the boiler is tested to show that it produces electricity reliably to claim the FIT. The key component is the scroll. We know they had problems with the scroll...then a financing RNS and who is making the Scroll now?....Jabil I believe.
There is still a risk related to the MCS accreditation. I'm not sure how to quantify it though because FlowGroup have given no information about the previous MCS accreditation test results.
So, yes we have to assume they are confident it will meet the requirements.
"In the past six months Jabil and Flow have worked well as a team in preparation for the Flow Boiler relaunch. Significant progress has been made in supply chain, resilience, logistics, design and cost."

[brummy_git] 14/12/2015 08:53

New research out from Equity Development

hxxp://www.equitydevelopment.co.uk/doc/1433.pdf

[blah blah] 14/12/2015 08:36

The RNS that halved the share price was this one:



It's pretty clear the reason they gave was VAT related. I would think they are confident of FIT.

[larry335] 14/12/2015 08:27

Blah blah, if you say so. But the VAT difference is only 15%, while the FIT covers half of the payback. The RNS says they want to use the bolier that pays for itself model. They need the FIT (MCS accreditation) for the model to work (at least in the early stages of sales).
Look back at the old RNS's. Where does it say they ever got the MCS accreditation?
The VAT affects things but FIT is more critical IMO.

[blah blah] 14/12/2015 08:11

Last time around the issue was the removal of the special VAT rate would have left the boiler uncompetitive. Now the cost has been reduced such that it will still pay for itself even if the VAT rate is removed - and if it is retained then potentially Flow will have a windfall on its hands.

[larry335] 14/12/2015 08:00

Last time round I believe the real issue was the MCS accreditation, which is needed to claim the FIT. The FIT is quite important for the financing, at least in the early stages of the launch/marketing.
According to the RNS, MCS is expected in March...

[blah blah] 14/12/2015 07:57

Hmmm - this was 30p a share, almost double the price, when they announced the delay. Now it it back on track, and they have signed the shell deal, can see big gains here through 2016.

[funkmasterp12] 14/12/2015 07:53

Good RNS, nice to see some further strategy and update on the VAT issue.

[1fox1] 09/12/2015 11:54

Mr MacGregor. You sound like a man who has also been "Stiffed" Not his biggest fan eh?

[mr macgregor] 09/12/2015 11:50

Anyone who takes that announcement at face value has been Stiffed again in my opinion. They've signed a supply agreement in return for warrants and covenants. It doesn't mean they'll have the customers. Even if they do the margins in the Flow Energy side of the business are miniscule as energy supply is so competitive. Notice how the statement carefully avoids mention of the potential impact on profits.
What they're trying to do is gain entry into people's homes so their 'brand ambassadors' at the 'forefront of the digital revolution' (ie. they're provided with ipads showing photos of the product) can attempt to flog the boiler on commission. I expect most people will smell the sales patter a mile off though they might be able to work a few on the elderly and infirm.

[1fox1] 09/12/2015 11:47

Well I'm no chartist but it does seem to be turning up imo

[staverly] 09/12/2015 11:27

Note the key word "could" ... as in pigs and fly.

Until the boiler is a happening thing i'm out.

[funkmasterp12] 09/12/2015 09:20

Bought in here on this morning's news. Looks good.

[johnwise] 09/12/2015 07:14

Flowgroup plc Five year contract with Shell

RNS Number : 4343I

Tony Stiff, CEO of Flowgroup, commented:

"We believe today's announcement could lead to a significant increase in the Company's revenue, cashflow and value prospects and also provide a readymade route to market for the Company's electricity-generating Flow boiler, as well as the broader range of energy products the Company intends to offer to its customers."

[pugugly] 08/12/2015 13:13

oldunc:- Excellent points - I have had on watch list for some time but without 100% guaranteed results from independent testing UNDER REAL IN TARGET HOME USAGE any research results may (imo) have as much relevance to real life as the published VW emission tests before they were found out by the yanks to have fudged the tests.

NB Too good to be true is usually from bitter experience a major warning signal (not saying this is the case here but certainly needs a lot of DD before taking the plunge) I have not had any answers in spite of asking questions,

[opodio] 07/12/2015 21:04

stiffler wont leave until he milks the cash cow dry

[1fox1] 04/12/2015 16:03

Fully agree with you staverly. The VAT malarkey was just a smokescreen. An excuse from a slimy toad who pays himself far too much for doing far too little.

[vinceelliott] 04/12/2015 00:10

hxxp://www.insidermedia.com/publications/yorkshire-business-insider/yorkshire-business-insider-december-2015/in-the-spirit-of-innovation

Worth a look

[staverly] 03/12/2015 06:06

"game changer" ... more like a timely GOOJF card. Bear in mind UK government is yet to enact ECJ ruling ... may never bother without "positive" referendum outcome.
Self-serving hindsight clearly suggests operational issues all along.

DYOR

[oldunc] 01/12/2015 19:59

I am also a long term investor and believe that the vat rate change was the real game changer for Tony Stiff as it was his get out of jail free card and could blame that for everything. There has been no published data on any of the test boilers, in fact the results due from the testing carried out in Europe and America which was due in December 2014 never appeared at anytime, but they are getting the revised boilers to conduct new testing. If the news from the previous testing was positive do you think TS would keep that quiet? No evidence of a reliable electricity generating boiler. The price quoted for the new boiler of £3000 is that at 5% or 15% vat rate?
Believed in the BS news flow and should have know when the selling started in January 2015, the people in the know getting out.