Flowgroup Plc Share Discussion Threads

[the stigologist] 25/6/2015 10:49

poor old downpompeii

[1fox1] 25/6/2015 10:23

Good post greenday. Fully agree about management. No different from a lot of scumbag AIM companies. I'm afraid most investors like myself thought Stiff and co were different. Ces't la Vie.

[fox you] 24/6/2015 16:53

COME ON GUYS, CHAT THE SHARES UP

LOL

FOX YOU

[1fox1] 24/6/2015 11:14

Wow... Just back from holiday. Tony Stiff and co haven't covered themselves in glory here. Can the board be trusted from here on in? Going back over previous RNS statements. When the price had the first big drop from 44p-35p Flow issued an RNS stating it knew of no reason for the fall in share price and that everything was on track. They must have known of a number of design issues at that time. Tony Stiff and co have since made several announcements saying everything was on track. Even before the fundraising no mention was made of any issues with the boiler. I think the VAT thing is a smokescreen for the subsequent shortfall in orders. We can safely assume this shortfall is down to the boiler not being ready for sale. In fact I don't believe you could actually have bought one if you wanted to. The one shining light out of all this is Jabil taking such a large slice in the fundraising at 28p. Since they are manufacturing the boiler they are in a prime position to know of any design amendments to make the boiler fit for purpose. They must also have known of these issues before the fundraising yet they backed up the company with hard cash. Taking this into account I've decided to stick with it for now. I believe the boiler will actually be ready for sale sometime in July. Re the previous RNS statements let's not forget this is an AIM stock. It comes with all the risks associated with this type of investment. I got it badly wrong thinking this company was exempt from all this. DYOR

[fox you] 23/6/2015 19:29

REALLY

LOL

TIME TO BAIL OUT??
THE CHOICE IS YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[maceverett] 23/6/2015 09:27

Why all the LOLS Fox. You are like an embarrassing adult trying to get with the kids. Also not nice to wish misfortune on other people.

[uppompeii] 23/6/2015 08:51

Looks like you missed a quick 30% FY

[fox you] 22/6/2015 09:51

MANY THANKS GREENDAY

I GOT THE SAME TREATMENT ON THE IGAS THREADS - I WAS PREDICTING A SUB ONE QUID FOR THEM WHEN THE share price WAS AROUND 150P AND THE REST IS HISTORY

AIM SHARES, I NEARLY GOT SUCKED IN WITH THE HYPE BUT THEN SAT BACK AND THOUGHT ABOUT IT HARD AND CAME TO THE CONCLUSION, 'ITS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE,' AND STICK TO MY GUNS.

AS WITH ANY SP, INC DEAD BEAT AIM SP'S THERE IS ALWAYS THE CHANCE OF DEAD CAT BOUNCES AND THEN NEW LOWS FOR THE RECENT HISTORY.

I CAME BACK INTO DIRECT SHARES LAST MAY I THINK, MADE LOADS OUT OF ONE CO, ITV, AND AND A FEW K'S OUT OF ANOTHER TWO CO'S. COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO I WENT 100% CASH AS I FEARED A GRREK BASED MARKET CORRECTION - A MARKET CORRECTION WILL COME AND LOOKS AS THOUGH EU TOO FEARFUL TO KICK OUT GREEKS JUST DELAYING A BIGGER NEGATIVE IMPACT IMO


I'M PLEASED THAT MY POSTS HELPED YOU IN YOUR DECISON MAKING. I DESPISE MOST FORUMS ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO AIM SHARES, IE SAME OLD STORY, HPYES, RAMPS, 'FILL U BOOTS,' THEN BANG AND CYCLE IS REPEATED WHEN NEW LOSERS JOIN IN OR EXISITNG ONES 'AVERAGE DOWN' AS THE SAY

MY POSTS ARE OPINIONS ON BASED ON WHAT I SEE AND I SAW THIS share price AS ONE OF THE BETTER AIM STOCKS, BUT UNTIL I SEE REAL SALES TARGETS BEING MET THAT RESULT IN PROFITS, I'M OUT

A WHILE BACK I PRECITED THIS share price WILL GO BELOW 10P AND TAKE OVER AROUND 10P, NOW I'M NOT SURE

AS ALWAYS, DYOR, YOU DECIDE IF TO BUY/SELL OR RUN

FOX YOU

[greenday] 21/6/2015 19:45

Staverly
Totally agree with your rationale,

with respect to the stock, It was a Sheffield based company call Argonaunt Games, I think this was about 10-12 years ago they had a very successful range of top platform games, and until Flow I have not touched AIM listed stock, this time hopefully wise enough to get out with a net 35% loss and not loose the lot this time.

I really did think this was a balanced risk/reward in term of the investment risk, if Flow had come clean about the volume profile sooner, I would have exited, I suspect many more would have too. Hence my view this board looks like it is focused on thier own long term gain, and don't give two hoots about the small private investors, I'm pretty sure Jabil will not loose out.

[fox you] 21/6/2015 17:25

RE RECENT DIRECTOR BUY - LOL, WAS THAT IT - LOL

[fox you] 21/6/2015 17:24

FROM FLOW GROUP NEWS RELEASE

DIGEST FROM FLOW GROUP = THANK THE LORD I STEERED CLEAR AND WILL REMAIN CLEAR.

I HAVE A SKILL FOR PRICIDITING MASSIVE WOES ESPECIALLY WHEN I'M NOT INVESTED IN THE SP

I AM 100% CASE AND AWAITING THE MARKET CORRECTION
=====================

Key risks
 Adoption of Flow’s innovative new technology could take longer and cost more than
originally thought.
ï‚— Another recession could push back the time line to reach breakeven.
ï‚— The Feed in Tariffs (or 'generation credits') - which presently only apply for the first
30,000 installations - could be cut or even withdrawn by authorities. We reckon this is
unlikely though in the short term, given the productâ€;™s environmental and peak-loading
benefits for the national grid.
ï‚— Other regulatory/tax/fiscal changes.
ï‚— Execution risk of manufacturing, delivering, installing and servicing a significant step-up
in volumes.
ï‚— Flow is relatively small and could get squeezed by the large traditional boiler
manufacturers (eg Worcester Bosch, Vaillant and DBR Thermea).
ï‚— Technological obsolescence whereby the microCHP boiler ultimately becomes
superseded by a new scientific discovery, such as fuel cells (Re Ceres Power

[uppompeii] 21/6/2015 16:34

I think it is a smokescreen too, as such I have got rid of those I had left. Fortunately by trading in and out as I tend to on AIM shares I've done well albeit a loss on the rights shares. Too much risk now, if TS reduced his pay and bought in volume I may have a bit more faith but until then I'm on the sidelines.

[greenday] 21/6/2015 10:32

The actions at flow, bring back memories of when I invested in a very successful software house ( who had numerous leading game software packages selling multi millions copies) they listed to raise funds to grow the business, within two years they went bust overnight after raising multi millions from investors, and then subsequently took the company back into private ownership for a peppercorn. The original owners still retained ownership and continued to trade with the small private investor screwed. I see too many similarities now with this lot, I can't believe that big investors like Jabil have not done thier due- dilgence before thier investment into Flow, which leads you to think they were also aware of the sales and risks, therefore I have to conclude there is a huge risk that the long term stragety of Flow is likely to be somewhat different than what many investors may have thought. I will watch with interest to see how this ends up, but not has an investor. I always thought the numbers were ambitious in year 1,

however to be overstated by 30 fold you have to conclude ether the board was totally unaware of situation which smacks of incompetence or knew about it which in simple terms smacks of misleading investors. Ether way you have to conclude that you would not trust this board to take your dog a walk, and bring it back safely.

[fox you] 19/6/2015 19:41

EXCELLENT POST GREENDAY

I NEARLY FELL FOR THE HYPE, BUT THE BIT ABOUT THE NUMBERS SOLD, NO HOT WATER, THE COST OF THE THING AND THAT IS BEFORE THIS VAT BOMBSHELL AND THE MASSIVE INSTALLATION COST OF 1800 - A RECEIPE FOR DISASTER IMO

I POSTED THE NIGHT BEFORE THE BOMBSHELL NEWS THAT I MAY JOIN IN AT TEN P - EVEN I DID NOT SEE THIS COMING AND I'M SURPRISED THE RAMPERS WERE NOT AWARE RE VAT RULING MADE A FEW WEEKS AGO. IMO THE VAT THING WAS JUST AN EXCUSE AS ME FOR ONE NEVER SAW LARGE ENOUGH SALES AT THESE PRICES TO MAKE IT VIABLE

YES GREENDAY ABOUT "AIM" SHARES ME TOO NEARLY FELL FOR THIS ONE, LUCKY ESCAPE - THE POOR SODS THAT RECENTLY BOUGHT INTO THE PLACING - LOL

[greenday] 19/6/2015 18:44

The bombshells announced this week in respect to sales volumes and the vat ruling would have been well known to the board at flow for a considerable time, which leads the small private investor in doubt where they feature in the CEO and boards thinking. Clearly they have no interest at all other than taking the cash to Fund thier huge unjustified salaries. Going forward it is clear they are only interested in making a killing for themselves, this weeks buys are nothing more than a smoke screen, I now predict flow will go bust, and a buyout will take place that looks after the board long term and screws the small investor. I got burnt 12 years ago with a software company, and since then have kept away from AIM stock, until flow who I thought were different. History tells us 9/10 small investors usually loose out. I'm out with a 35% loss, Small punt failed no longer trust this management.

[grandwood] 18/6/2015 11:56

Maybe it's just a terminology problem, but I don't think they are the same...my understanding is that a limit (buy) order only executes if the fixed price (defined when the order is placed) is reached. E.g. I could have created a limit (buy) order on Monday (when share price was 25p) with a limit price of 23p. As the share price dropped through that level on it's way to the low teens that trade would have executed but depending on whole bunch of things, including the speed of the drop and whether the order was visible to the market rather than just the broker, it might have executed at anywhere between 23p and 13.5 (or whatever the low was on tue). Obviously that leaves a great deal of opportunity to get (more) burnt at the top end of that range.

With a trailing stop (buy) order on the other hand, one sets an offset which tracks the price down and only executes when it spikes back up by more than that offset. Some brokers also allow an optional maximum offset to effectively create a "trailing band" which is generally what I use when I choose this option.

Whilst there is no guarantee, the trailing stop (with band) option can sometimes be safer and in this case the MMs would have had to raise the offer up above 26p first thing Tuesday whilst they simultaneously dropped the bid to low teens in order to make my order execute at the higher price. Not impossible, but unlikely with such a rapid and severe drop.

NAI

[staverly] 18/6/2015 07:56

GW: think I've got to the bottom of this confusion. For some inexplicable reason, a "trailing stop buy" is just another term for "limit buy".

[grandwood] 18/6/2015 07:25

More director buys ....bit of a kick in the teeth for those who signed up for the placing at over twice the price!

[grandwood] 18/6/2015 07:10

Staverly, I got you now; yeah, would have cancelled if I'd been paying attention around this time on tuesday

[fox you] 17/6/2015 18:06

FROM FLOW GROUP NEW RELEASE YESTERDAY

DIGEST FROM FLOW GROUP = THANK THE LORD I STEERED CLEAR
=====================

Key risks
 Adoption of Flow’s innovative new technology could take longer and cost more than
originally thought.
 Another recession could push back the time line to reach breakeven.
 The Feed in Tariffs (or 'generation credits') - which presently only apply for the first
30,000 installations - could be cut or even withdrawn by authorities. We reckon this is
unlikely though in the short term, given the product’s environmental and peak-loading
benefits for the national grid.
 Other regulatory/tax/fiscal changes.
 Execution risk of manufacturing, delivering, installing and servicing a significant step-up
in volumes.
 Flow is relatively small and could get squeezed by the large traditional boiler
manufacturers (eg Worcester Bosch, Vaillant and DBR Thermea).
 Technological obsolescence whereby the microCHP boiler ultimately becomes
superseded by a new scientific discovery, such as fuel cells (Re Ceres Power)