Fisher (james) & Sons Share Discussion Threads

[illiswilgig] 01/5/2020 12:07

Boule,

no problem, I wasn't trying to answer a question as such, but your mention did make me more intrigued.......

from your message no1953

.....and now we have the Regent Trust Co. selling their entire 7.67% holding, and the price dropped back to around 13.10 before starting to climb again. What gives, do you suppose?....

.....for what its worth, I followed Roddie's example and bought a few more this morning at 1285.... and just to be clear I share your pain, as I live from my investment earnings and estimate my dividend income will have fallen by around 2/3 this year. Should just be ok, but my recent purchases with scarce cash may prove to be foolhardy! Or brilliant? time will tell,

cheers

[bouleversee] 01/5/2020 11:11

I have no recollection of asking about this sale/transfer (must be getting even more ga-ga than I had realised) but thanks both for the explanation.

I think I shall sit on the fence.

[illiswilgig] 01/5/2020 10:44

Hello Roddie, Trust you are well?

Must say the apparent purchase by the Sir John Fisher Foundation intrigued me as well and following comments from both bouleversee and yourself I've had a closer look.

Acording to the Charities commission accounts, the Sir John Fisher Foundation is a well run charity and grants almost all of its annual income, almost all from FSJ shares, to a wide range of local and regional charities, and some national ones as well. Around 2 million a year according to the 2019 accounts - there is a full list of donations at the end of the report which can easily be downloaded from the charities commission website.

But they don't have the cash to buy more shares, nor would a charity normally be allowed to do so. So how did they acquire them and why would RBC dispose?

I found a clue in the accounts and also in the sale RNS by RBC.

RBC list the subsidiary disposing of the shares as 'The Regent Trust Company ltd'

and idly looking through the notes of the Foundation I noticed an annual donation from The Regent Trust Company (JM Fisher Settlement).

It looks to me as if the Regent Trust Company may have wound up and passed their capital onto the Foundation to do the job? Which would make some good sense?

cheers

[roddiemac2] 01/5/2020 08:59

With little visibility of just about everything, the broader market is yoyoing. Most shares are moving in unison, so perhaps this is partly responsible for FSJ falling since the AGM statement. I note that only just over a couple of thousand shares have been traded so far today. Yesterday there were 27,489 traded in 277 trades. That is an average trade size of 99 shares: hardly a panic.

I bought some between 1320p and 1358p some days ago. I am happy to hold.I may add more.

Bouleversee mentioned the Royal bank of Canada selling. It looks as though the Sir John Fisher foundation took some or all of those. I have asked for confirmation of that. the Foundation`s trustees must understand the business as well as anyone. If they did buy the shares , then that is a vote of confidence from a big long term holder.

The BOD have taken all the precautionary measures possible.

[bouleversee] 30/4/2020 12:11

I see HL have FSJ as a very strong buy today. This is the dividend history for the past few years, starting with yr to Dec 31, 2019, when the final wasn't paid:

Dividend growth:
-64.24%
10.10%
9.75%
9.87%
8.18%
Dividend yield:
0.60%
1.80%
1.80%
1.70%
2.00%
Dividend cover:
6.47
2.83
2.74
2.94
2.9

The yield was never very high in relation to share price and was well covered so things must be pretty bad if they cancel it and the share price still drops like a stone.

I should be interested to know Roddie's views. My children have cash in their ISAs and am considering suggesting they should top up but we all have quite a lot between us and I really don't understand what is happening here.

[bouleversee] 30/4/2020 10:48

I have also held for very many years but have never sold any and my lovely profits have been much reduced. If one is retired and relies on dividends to a large degree there is no money to buy more shares when prices drop and dividends are axed.

I can't help wondering whether the new CEO is as good as the old family member who is no longer in post.

[otemple3] 30/4/2020 10:37

I have followed this for years having bought it in during the 2009/10 collapse and sold a number of years later for a nice profit (that could have been so much more!). See this as a quality operator and in normal times would be snapping up shares at this price but these are not normal times! Happy to watch for now but will definitely be looking to add some at 12,11,10 (if it goes that low).

[illiswilgig] 30/4/2020 10:01

Quick update - I see that the market has taken a dim view of this mornings statement.

You can be surprised the price is so low. Equally you can be surprised that the share price remains so high? I wouldn't be surprised whatever the market price does at the moment. The one thing I do know is that the price doesn't reflect the true future value of the company. Because nobody knows what that value will be.

The price is being set by a tug-of-war between those that think the business will do worse and those that think the business will do better. As a result the price is somewhere in the middle and appears to move randomly as neither team gains an advantage, until suddenly at some future point its all over and the price will move decisively on way or another.

Just my opinion.

[bouleversee] 15/4/2020 09:24

So we have had the Finance Dir. buy a chunk at nil cost via his LTIP and sell some to pay the tax (nice work if you can get it!) after axing the dividend helped send the share price down and now we have the Regent Trust Co. selling their entire 7.67% holding, and the price dropped back to around 13.10 before starting to climb again. What gives, do you suppose? I must say I am surprised that the price has fallen so much from the high.

[bouleversee] 23/3/2020 15:18

Wise words, Illis. I can't be bothered to work out my total paper loss any more. Am off to cut my 5 lawns or as many of them as I can manage before I run out of energy. That's assuming my neighbour is still around to stsrt the mower for me as that is beyond my strength. It's a Honda Easy Start, ironically, and jiggered my neck for weeks lasT time I tried. LOL.

[illiswilgig] 23/3/2020 14:46

PS - I am one of the buyers refusing to buy at the moment. Tempting though it is. I will wait to see if its cheaper tomorrow. I may miss the boat, who knows?

cheers

[illiswilgig] 23/3/2020 14:45

Hi Boule, another tough day I see.

It can be hard to remember that in a relatively few momths a lot of countries will be through the epidemic and out the other side. There may be a few that have failed to either lock it down or let the fire burn and are still stuck in limbo. I reckon Germany is just about to turn the corner and some of the smaller northern european states. Maybe even France they have locked down tight like China and Korean did.

Sadly in the UK we are still messing around and have failed to get serious.

Once the signs of more countries getting through it are more clear then the market will respond and become much more selective.

In the meantime anything could happen for the next few weeks. Buyers don't have to buy the share. If there are forced sellers and no buyers - then the price does not reflect the future value of the company, just the desperation of the sellers? Hence there will be strange movements dependent upon the need to sell?

stay well,

cheers

[bouleversee] 19/3/2020 18:51

Strange that FSJ was down so much today when the market was up generally and some shares went up a decent amount.

[illiswilgig] 18/3/2020 16:26

Don't forget with all the panic that this disease is very infectious but nowhere near as fatal as SARS, MERS etc. It is necessary to pull out all the stops to prevent any more people than necessary from dying either from the disease, or from the inability of the health service to do anything else. So the medicine is worse than the illness. That's speaking economically of course, not so valid if you are dead!

On the other side most companies will still exist, who owns them might be open to some question, but we will get to the other side in a few months, or at least have sight of it, and the stock market does look ahead. Right at the moment its looking towards the worst point, when it will look past? Who knows?

Good luck and stay well!

[illiswilgig] 18/3/2020 16:20

Similar boat, just got a bigger hole in mine!

Hoping if I sink that Fisher will send down a submersible to rescue me. Nice to see the CEO buying,

Keep baling!

cheers

[roddiemac2] 17/3/2020 22:02

boule,

The shares are , as is usually the case, trading in small amounts . We just have to live with it. You could not buy a sizeable amount here without lifting the price. There are few brave enough to buy right now.

I am in the same boat as you, having lost hundreds of thousands on paper: ainsi va le monde. Sit tight.

[bouleversee] 17/3/2020 20:10

I have just looked at 2 of my ISAs where most of my money is, or should I say was, plus my dealing acct. p/f which I hadn't yet got around to transferring to ISA and I nearly had a heart attack. Pretty well all my gains have turned into big losses. I haven't yet looked at the 2 fund ISAs and my certificated portfolio but they will probably be worse. I should think I am losing at least 60% of my capital, several hundred thousand, which isn't funny after taking a lifetime to build it up. I probably don't have very long to sit it out. I have had some nasty losses in the past but this is beyond belief. Wasn't it Buffet who said "Let your winners run". Thanks a bunch. I should have taken the gains and given more to my sprogs but was too busy battling with the NHS to get a diagnosis.

Having seen what my housebuilder shares (I had a holding in Persimmon) have done in the past couple of weeks, I'd better see what Zoopla are saying about my house value. I doubt if I need any longer worry about losing the RNRB. On the whole, however, I'd rather have paid it!

My over-wide diversification (too many holdings to keep track of) doesn't seem to have helped in the present circumstances since everything seems to be down.

[ottrott] 17/3/2020 19:37

Bouleversee, I think it is just panic selling. More popular stocks have sold off even more. And all on reasonably low volumes. PI's selling at all cost plus a buyers strike. Nothing to do with company fundamentals. Just have to sit it out. IMHO

[bouleversee] 17/3/2020 16:28

I see the new CEO bought 1729 shares yesterday at a price of 14.37, pour encourager les autres presumably, which it appears to have done briefly but share price now back to around what he paid.

I really don't understand why the price of this company should have fallen so much. Surely most of the work they do will have to carry on under existing contracts. Is this just mass hysteria? I am tempted to add to my and my family's holdings but we have rather a lot between us already. Too late for today anyway. The day is nearly over before I have finished all my chores now I have no help.

[roddiemac2] 16/3/2020 18:42

illis,

I have apples pears and greengages .

As you say, picking the companies likely to survive is no easy matter. I am stuck with what I have got---at least a couple that may not survive.

I have added to SFR and FSJ.

Under normal circumstances , I would not look at FTSE 100 stocks , but I have been looking at TSCO as a possible buy.

[bouleversee] 16/3/2020 18:09

I had seen that, thanks, and couldn't understand it. What is the definition of a civil crime?

How things have changed. Many years ago, we were burgled in our previous house. The police were very attentive. I don't know whether they caught the thieves but at least they arrived promptly and we got compensation through them for damage to a rather valuable Davenport and a visit from someone who offered counselling. We claimed on our insurance for stolen items. Not worth claiming on this occasion.

[jeffian] 16/3/2020 16:21

Hi bouleversee,

Our paths haven't crossed for a while but we have exchanged comments in the past on various fora.

Sorry to hear of your handbag saga. I don't know if you saw this story (click link) but it doesn't bode well for the idea that the police will do anything at all, I'm afraid! Too busy pursuing 'hate crimes', I expect.