Concepta Share Discussion Threads

[rbcrbc] 03/10/2011 11:32

Probably around Mid November, the date hasnt been decided yet.

[maanie_2660] 03/10/2011 09:39

In simple language when are we going to physically receive anything?

[rbcrbc] 02/10/2011 11:06

Arrangements will be made to deal with any assets of which the Company has been unable to dispose by the end of the current Portfolio Management Agreement, expiring 31 December 2011.

It'll be interesting to see what those arrangements are.....

[praipus] 02/10/2011 08:28

From the interim results:



"Dividend

In line with the business plan set by the Strategic Review in January 2010, the Company intends to distribute the cash received from asset sales to shareholders. Based on the progress made following the above transactions and the transfer of the net proceeds through various jurisdictions to the holding company, Carpathian intends to distribute 25 euro cents per ordinary share via a B Share bonus issue with a record date of 30 September 2011. The ordinary shares will be marked ex-entitlement to the B Share bonus issue on 28 September 2011. In addition, the Company aims to make a further distribution before the end of 2011.

Adequate cash reserves will be retained for all applicable actual and contingent liabilities. Arrangements will be made to deal with any assets of which the Company has been unable to dispose by the end of the current Portfolio Management Agreement, expiring 31 December 2011.

At the Annual General Meeting held on 6 August 2010, the Company adopted new Articles of Association, which provide for the creation of new share classes. In respect of such distribution of 25 euro cents, your Board proposed to implement the proposals then outlined. This would result in an issue of new B shares pro rata to existing shareholders, offering qualifying shareholders the opportunity to elect for a conventional dividend (income) distribution or for a share sale and purchase (capital) distribution. The details were described in the circular dated 14 July 2010 that convened the above Annual General Meeting. A copy of this circular is available for download from the Company's website:

Further particulars and a form of election will be circulated in the next few weeks"

[jonwig] 01/10/2011 14:31

skan - you need to read the Circular dating from July 2010 to see the choices:

The Company will then provide Shareholders with a Form of Election pursuant to which Shareholders (save for Excluded Shareholders) will be asked to elect to receive the Return of Cash either by way of Alternative 1 (share buy-back) or by way of Alternative 2 (dividend) or any combination of these in respect of their New Shares.

So, your broker should give you the choice or, if the shares are held in your own name, you'll get the forms. I'm not expecting this anytime soon.

[skanjete2] 01/10/2011 10:44

But how can you make it classify as dividend or capital then. For me it's important that it's considered capital, so how can I make sure of it?

[praipus] 30/9/2011 17:42

Skanjete2, the previous B share issues for companies in liquidation I've witnessed you didnt have to do anything. So I'm assuming CPT's return will be similar.

(Edit: 2/10/2010: Looking at the last iterim report it states there is a choice between electing for the cash return to treated as:
1. Income or
2. Capital
so the choice is yours and not compulsory as I had assumed).

[skanjete2] 30/9/2011 16:12

Praipus, as you state it, it seems that we don't have to undertake anything.

Won't we have to choose between receiving dividend or capital return upon receival of the B shares?

[praipus] 30/9/2011 11:11

Pap02 I use Selftrade they take their time paying the cash. But the rest is ok. It usuallys says something like "Rights issue".

[praipus] 30/9/2011 11:09

Sscrabble, one or two companies have returned capital in this way to me before and typically the shares are cancelled immediately and the cash is returned to you. You dont unusually have to do anything apart from wait for the cheque.

It is just a low cost way of returning cash/capital to you with out you incurring income TAX.

[papy02] 30/9/2011 11:05

Does anyone have experience with Selftrade executing B-share offers? I.e. do they offer and execute both options for return of cash correctly?

My own interest is whether they execute the Dividend option correctly, and give me enough info to make a negligible value claim to HMRC once the dividend is paid and the B-share become negligible-value deferred shares.

[rbcrbc] 30/9/2011 10:31

You will need to ask selftrade - as the B shares will not be listed or traded on the markets it is possible that they will not show up on your account.

Paperwork related to the shares should be issued 'in the next few weeks' so probably a couple of months (? Mid Nov) until you see the cash appear.

[sscrabble] 30/9/2011 09:50

So the value of my shares has gone down in my selftrade account -- when should the 'b' shares appear?

[loganair] 29/9/2011 10:53

That's why I sold out as posted a week ago to buy safe dividend paying (6% to 8%) stocks that have fallen 20% plus due to the general market turmoil.

[roberts_rich] 28/9/2011 17:15

so wot we all gained f all

[papy02] 28/9/2011 10:15

:-)
(not down the full 25c tho, so far anyway)

[rbcrbc] 28/9/2011 10:11

They shouldn't do that so early in the morning - I looked at my portoflio total and thought the world had ended !

[papy02] 26/9/2011 18:42

K

I make the performance fee for the 10% "band" = (36.4c - 17.25c)* 232.1m shares * 10% = 4.45m Euros

so around 5m Euros of the accrued amount is for capital performance fee at the 25% level?

Which I make a total of 40.95c total net shareholder return, minus the 4.5c Jan 10 payment = about 36.5c/share from here, for properties sold up to end June 11.
(Accepting CPTs point that the accrual is only an estimate, not any kind of commitment)

[kramch] 26/9/2011 18:07

The accounts state that the performance fee is for the cash raised so far.

Once they get above 36.4c total payout, their success fee goes upto 25%, which I don't think is in the 9m accrual.

They have also received 0.5% - 1% on the gross value of the properties sold (where there is a net cash return after debt).

I reckon 36c is not far off the mark for what we can expect back.

K.

[papy02] 26/9/2011 17:32

CPT Replies to my q's on the half-year report:

Re does the 41.9c NAV include all expected expenses fees and liquidation costs: liquidation costs are not yet accrued in the balance sheet

Re what shareholder payout was assumed for the 9.451m Capital Performance fee accrual (on property sales to end June 11): the figure given in the results is only an estimate and I'm afraid we're not able to provide a number in terms of what future distributions may be

Any comments before I go back for a second try?

[papy02] 23/9/2011 13:20

Praipus, no, am holding the ordinary CPT shares (necessary to qualify for the CGT "loss", which to correct myself, is worth an extra 18% of the payout value to us)

[praipus] 23/9/2011 12:30

Re:1087 sounds very interesting Papy02 will watch with interest. Are you holding ordinary CPT shares or are they a spreadbet too?

[papy02] 23/9/2011 12:05

loganair, understand where you are coming from, but aren't you taking on a lot more downside risk than here, for the potential greater upside?

An additional attraction of CPT for me is the capital-loss if I (or in fact my wife) takes the dividend option - we can use that to offset a property CGT gain, which means an extra 10% return vs the actual "payout" (assuming the CPT price drops by an equivalent amount to the payout).

(I'd be very interested in what safe dividend shares you are looking at investing in btw - may do that as well)