Capital & Regional Share Discussion Threads

[typo56] 09/9/2009 19:18

MF10: Your purchase contract and ownership is when the trade is conducted. When you arrange to pay for them is between you and your broker.

Otherwise, who do you suppose owns the shares (and the rights attached to the shares) between contract and settlement?

a) The seller, who has no knowledge of your settlement terms with your broker?
b) Your broker? That would be nice work for brokers creaming off entitlements such as dividends that take place between contract and settlement! I think not.

[mf10] 09/9/2009 18:59

Most trades are T+3 so they are technically correct in that you would not have purchased the shares until three working days after the buy was executed.

Having said that, I've just checked as I also sold my holding before taking up the offer and my settlement date with TDW was the 24th yet they still allowed me to purchase my open offer allocation based on that unsettled purchase.

I purchased the original shares on the 19th and sold them on the 20th.

I did make sure to check for the notification and to tell them I wanted to take up the offer though.

[wongman] 09/9/2009 16:23

is the mall fund news good or bad news for us? TIA

[boobly] 09/9/2009 16:13

Typo :....
As PP Sold , he might have been required to state his intentions with regard to the OO at the point of sale , otherwise the rights to the OO go with the shares .

[typo56] 09/9/2009 16:07

Boobly, I'm not sure about Lloyds being able to sell the 'rights' as this is an open offer. However, I have wondered about nominee accounts in the case of open offers.

Brokers stipulate an internal date ahead of the official acceptance date. Therefore they know before the official acceptance date how many shares are not going to be taken up by their clients. Could they take up the remaining entitlement themselves and thereby make a nice little bonus? Pays for the bubbly at Christmas?

[typo56] 09/9/2009 16:02

puchpilot, if your trade to buy CAL was on 18th August and you still held them at open on 20th August then you are entitled to you open offer entitlement. Geez, some of these brokers are wombats!

Logically all the shares must be eligible to the open offer. If Lloyds agree that you bought the shares on 18th August but claim they are not elibible because you didn't settle until 21st August then who do they think is eligible on those shares?

I fear you face a secondary problem now though - you've missed the application date.

[boobly] 09/9/2009 15:55

... " The Open Offer closed for acceptance at 11.00 a.m. on 4 September 2009."

I believe , as the OO was fully underwritten , you would have needed to advise your broker of your wishes and intentions prior to your sale .
I `Think` you should still get the value of the OO because Lloyds will probably have sold your rights .
It must be worth a dialogue with Lloyds , especially as I think these are likely to start to move fast .
Perhaps you could still Buy back .

[puchpilot] 09/9/2009 15:23

That's what I think Warmsun. If not i wouldn't have the right to sell them until after the settlement date. Madness.. I can feel a strong letter coming on

[warmsun] 09/9/2009 15:20

I cant say for certain but surely you 'owned' the shares on the date of the trade - the 18th?? The settlement date is superfluous

[puchpilot] 09/9/2009 15:17

I am in need of some advice.
I bought CAL on 18th Aug with settlement date on 21st through Lloyds Stockbrokers. Sold holding on news of open offer on 20th. Eligibility date 5:00p.m. 19th Aug. Lloyds are saying I am not eligible for open offer entitlements, because my settlement date was after o/o.
Any one else experienced this problem before?
Thanks in advance
p_p

[diku] 09/9/2009 14:05

HW...yes PIs have started to come back here in the last few days...

[hungry wolf] 09/9/2009 13:37

it's all kicking off here
tomorrow will be veryinteresting indeed
hopefully all the yell traders will move on this one

[wimbled] 09/9/2009 13:29

Update re Mall Fund (Capital & Regional)





TIDMCAL

RNS Number : 7784Y
Capital & Regional plc
09 September 2009





9 September 2009




CAPITAL & REGIONAL PLC
MALL FUND ANNOUNCES BOND CONSENT SOLICITATION PROCESS


Capital & Regional plc ("Capital & Regional"), the co-investing property asset
manager, notes the announcement today by Mall Funding Plc (the "Issuer") of a
Note holder consent solicitation process. The consent solicitation seeks
approval from Note holders to permit the Mall Limited Partnership (the
"Borrower") and/or affiliates of the Borrower to purchase up to GBP150,000,000
in aggregate principal amount of Notes and enter into certain other related
transactions (the "Proposals"). Should the Note holders approve the changes
being sought to the terms of the Notes, the Issuer and the Borrower may or may
not decide to implement these Proposals. The potential buy back of the Notes
will benefit both noteholders and equity investors by reducing debt in an
economic and efficient manner.


Capital & Regional has a 16.7% interest in the Mall Fund.

[cockneyrebel] 09/9/2009 10:43

Seen QED today?

CAL now looking as undervalued as they are imo.

CR

[boobly] 09/9/2009 10:15

I think we`ll see some action tomorrow :


........."The New Ordinary Shares (in uncertificated form) are expected to be credited to CREST accounts on or around 8.00 a.m. on 10 September 2009 and definitive share certificates for the New Ordinary Shares are expected to be despatched to certificated shareholders by 14 September 2009 ".......

This was a `fully funded` open offer , so some people certainly have confidence into the future . Now that CAL ARE `Fully Funded` , I would hope to see the shares appropriately rerated .

Will £1.00 be too cheap ?

[diku] 08/9/2009 12:49

Looks like PI's are tipping their toes in here..a bit of action on the Plus market...not sure if that Buy column is 100% accurate on ADVFN as the price moves...

[cyberbub] 08/9/2009 12:45

CR it is, although there is the small matter of a 4:1 dilution in the way! But I get your drift, it is on its way back up again, even though the maximum we could expect now in a few years' time may be just £2.50 - 3 or so. Still good from here of course! DYOR

[cockneyrebel] 08/9/2009 11:47

Looking at the chart it looks a perfect buy point again - cut out that spike and the chart is back on the original curve upwards.

CR

[cyberbub] 08/9/2009 11:45

Davius/Lomax, would agree with you that short-term fair value is around 50p, but personally I think we could be back at £1 in the medium-term, say 6-12 months, as propoerty values recover. DYOR

[lomax99] 08/9/2009 11:20

The property management element is worth anywhere between 20p and 40p on it's own - see this going to 50p short term.

Will be stocking up big time if this has a funny 5 mins in the week ahead and dips below 30p!

[davius] 08/9/2009 09:49

> if the company decided to sell shares at 24p i think thats broadly what they
> think they are worth

Disagree with that one. Placings and Rights Issues are priced so that demand exceeds supply. That's the aim anyway, otherwise piles of shares are left with the underwriters.

If a share were trading at 50p a company doesn't just pick the price they think it should be trading at and issue shares at that price.

Also, Parkdev paid 26.4p for theirs, hardly a sensible move if they thought it was only worth 24p.

I'd suggest fair value is somewhere between 40p and 60p, given the benefits due to the company from the cash injection.

[hungry wolf] 08/9/2009 09:43

10th september. lets see what happens then first.

[diku] 08/9/2009 08:53

Anybody see this rising to 40p short term?..

[spec7] 07/9/2009 16:09

Thanks kibes .

Davius, the reason i say 45p ave is simply because i think the price above that was inflated because of the run up to results and rumour among small investors on this and other boards not to mention manipulation by the MM's who surely knew about the OO in advance ;-). Put it another way, I doubt the price would have gone to 99p without these temporary incentives :-)
I was hoping that CR might explain why these were cheap at 35p given the ave price over the last 6 months and the dilution. I still don't expect a "free lunch" and if the company decided to sell shares at 24p i think thats broadly what they think they are worth. Remember that 45p ave is the price the company would have had in mind when it worked out the dillution and 24p price..It would not have guessed there would be a spike of 99p..that said i have brought 15000 at the 24p so i hope i am wrong.

[davius] 07/9/2009 12:26

kibes, a good lesson in how to devalue twice in respect of the placing/rights issue...

Before the announcement, the share price was 98p, not 45p. Was it artificially pushed up? Who knows, but your valuation of 27p is low compared to what would usually be accepted as a post dillution price.

I'd concede the point in relation to the average price spec quoted, but that is surely meaningless, historic averages are irrelevant to most but the chartists.