Bay Capital Share Discussion Threads

[drewz] 20/5/2010 11:13

Quite right too. Justice prevails - the original decision appeared to be distorted by emotion and subjective opinion by the presiding judge. Quite disgraceful.

Whether the cabin crew's decision to vote for strike action was right or wrong-headed, the right to strike is fundamental.

[dm1] 20/5/2010 11:10

Unite have won appeal.

[selborne_edge] 19/5/2010 15:05

It is impossible to understand the destructive nature of the cabin crews. UNITE are of course doing what you would expect it to do and that is to try and destroy BA. It may be that the only hope for BA is to go into administration and then start again without the bloody-minded members of staff.

[rankor] 19/5/2010 13:04

The union and associated support are living in the land of nod! We are (just) comming out of the worst recession in history and they should consider themselves lucky to have a job (ask the 2.5 million jobless). The BA cabin crew perks and pay are not competative and if not changed then BA is history and so are the cabin crew jobs.

Share price 50p lower than a few months ago but fortunate not to be sub 100p as a result of the union and volcanic ash. If it was not for the city banking on a deal with the unions and the Iberia tie up both of which will result in cost savings and hopefully a return to profitability, the share price would be below 100p. I think the city will support the price back up to 250p if a deal is done. Next volcano is the pension black hole........

[molecule] 19/5/2010 09:12

1.20 hopefully soon, no future in air travel people

[wow400] 18/5/2010 08:32

Time Online -
I won't let these militants stop BA from flying
Unite's hardline minority must realise the world has changed. They can't strike their way back to the 1970s
Willie Walsh


I am absolutely delighted for our customers that Unite's extreme and completely unjustified threat of a 20-day strike against British Airways was quashed by the High Court yesterday. What would have been the longest strike at a major UK employer for a quarter of a century was an absurdly disproportionate response to the changes we are making to cabin crew operations as we strive to return to profitability.

However, I am very conscious that the court has done no more than provide a reprieve. We still have to reach a resolution to this dispute. We have spent 15 months talking to Unite and its cabin crew branch, the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (Bassa), about the need to find more efficient ways of working. Almost a year ago we successfully concluded similar discussions with our pilots and engineers, and had already cut our manager numbers by a third.

Our package for cabin crew is very fair, especially in view of the fact that we have lost hundreds of millions of pounds over the past two years in the worst recession the airline industry has known. We have met both the needs of our business and the genuine concerns of crew members.

In achieving permanent savings, we have carefully avoided compulsory redundancies. Instead, we have provided voluntary packages for those wanting to leave the company, allowed more crew to work part-time, and brought onboard crew numbers on flights from Heathrow into line with those at Gatwick. We have provided extra assurances that when we recruit new crew in the future, existing crew will have promotion opportunities and fair access to the most desirable routes.

We have offered rises in basic pay in the coming two years that would be gratefully seized by many employees in other parts of the economy. And, uniquely among UK airlines, we continue to pay incremental salary rises to a large majority of crew. Under our proposals, existing crew will remain easily the best rewarded in the UK industry.

We have provided an undertaking that there will be no victimisation arising from this dispute. And, to the annoyance of many thousands of our dedicated employees, we have offered to reinstate staff travel for cabin crew who went on strike in March.

Over the weekend, Unite's joint general secretary, Tony Woodley, described our offer as an "agreement in principle". I respect Tony. But it has become abundantly clear that he and Unite's co-leader Derek Simpson cannot deliver an agreement - because Bassa's committee and shop stewards do not support them.

Bassa's organisers do not accept there is any agreement in principle. In the face of Tony's words, they have just issued a detailed criticism of our offer.

Even if the 20-day strike had gone ahead, they were planning another ballot so they could continue disruption later in the year. They talk openly of a long "guerrilla campaign" designed to undermine customers' faith in British Airways and inflict as much commercial damage as possible.

This is an extraordinary position for a group of trade unionists to take. They positively relish the prospect of a prolonged attack on the customers and business that provide their members with well-rewarded jobs, generous pensions and enviable lifestyles. And they have no concern for the possible consequences of their campaign for thousands of members of Unite and other trade unionists employed in different parts of BA.

In other words, the obstacle to the resolution of this dispute is the refusal of this small group of Bassa hardliners to accept that the world has changed.

To Bassa, we are still in the 1970s: British Airways is nationalised, facing little competition and ever ready to do a cosy deal with the unions knowing the taxpayer will pick up the tab.

Nearly everything harmful about that culture has now disappeared at BA - apart from the legacy of a hard core of union activists who think they have a right to control day-to-day cabin crew operations.

The Bassa reactionaries do not care about our customers, colleagues in other departments or even their own members. What they care about is preserving the appearance of their own importance. So Bassa cannot countenance a deal that involves permanent change. They cannot accept management's duty to manage in the interests of our customers, all our employees and our shareholders.

The Bassa tail is wagging the Unite dog. I urge Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson to assert their authority and address this situation. The vast bulk of their 20,000 members at BA urgently want them to do so. These include the thousands of regular cabin crew who ignored the strike calls in March and, if necessary, will do so again to help us to keep the airline flying.

During the last strike, we flew more than 80 per cent of our customers. I am considering plans to raise that number towards 100 per cent should the need arise.I sincerely hope it does not. Unite's leaders must act.

Willie Walsh is chief executive of British Airways

[dancing piranha] 17/5/2010 21:53

LOL... What a disappointing, but expected response!

Still, it clearly shows you are the one with little knowledge afterall!

Enough wasting my time........

[shauney2] 17/5/2010 21:41

Dancing Piranha - 10 Jul'09 - 10:47 - 1736 of 4661


MM1, good luck with your flight!

Vern, very amusing, lol!

HP, From what was mentioned on here the other day, the overall short interest is pretty low, around 5-6% I believe, without trawling back!

However, thanks for your warning, but may I also warn you on the other hand, that these could be trading below 100p within weeks/months!!
.................................

What an easy little fish you are to catch DP lol.
I reckon you done your money here last year.

Not holding at the moment.Will look again next year.

This is the book you should be reading re Branson.


Personally i have nothing but good memorys of the burgoning Branson empire.
In the 70s he added a telephone ordering service to his mail order music business.
It was so badly run that for many months you could order whatever you liked without being billed.

Now would i put my money in his hands via a Virgin bank?
No but i would put yours in DP if you had any left.

[dancing piranha] 17/5/2010 20:57

Pretty trivial comment really ...... But who's laughing now anyway?

Branson tried to avert the invasion of Iraq...... and nearly succeeded! What were BA doing then?? Sweet FA!

Branson had organised for Nelson Mandela to go to Iraq via King Hussien of Jordan, a person who Saddam admired, to organise him standing down and exiling to Libya, and thus avoiding a US invasion of Iraq. Saddam agreed to the discussions, and Branson even agreed to escort Mandela to Iraq on one of his 747's, despite the fact he could have been taken hostage! Two days before they were due to fly out there the Yanks went in regardless! How many lives could he have saved if the Yanks had waited a couple of days??

BA were furious when they heard about it because they were not asked to supply the transport........

That is one reason why I'd happily see Virgin as our national carrier......

shauney2, where's all your knowledge, I'm waiting........ lol!

[old giggleswickian] 17/5/2010 20:46

Dancing Piranha,
"try reading "Screw it, just do it" by Mr Branson". I think the word "by" should give you a clue. Did he tell you in the book that when he went to the CAA wearing his outfit of righteousness to apply for a licence he was told to go away because his business methods lacked a little....... erm something!

Ian.

[dancing piranha] 17/5/2010 20:33

shauney2 - 17 May'10 - 19:15 - 4657 of 4658
So who owns Virgin?
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.You Dancing tadpole are VERY dangerous


LOL...

shauney2, Richard Branson owns the controlling vote in Virgin, and? Sadly I feel it is you that is a brainwashed *uckwit, and a danger to yourself, just because you are invested in this dog!

If you are such a knowledgeable person, tell me.... how much did it cost Branson to set up his airline, and where did he get his first plane from? Also I'd love to hear from your indepth knowledge the dirty underhanded tricks BA used to try and get rid of Virgin, as it struggled to get on its feet? I'm sure you have all the answers and I look forward to hearing them shortly...... If your struggling, try reading "Screw it, let's do it" by Mr Branson, and tell me afterwards you'd give a toss whether BA goes down, or not!

[factsonly] 17/5/2010 19:36

HAHAHAHA.

BA strike cancelled after airline wins high court injunction


and BA could even sue UNITE too! It would be a death blow to UNITE if they get sued for even a day's losses.

Just can't believe the RMT union is crowing about losing human rights to strike after denying everyone their basic human rights to travel and public services etc. Hope all militant striking types are made redundant.

[shauney2] 17/5/2010 19:15

So who owns Virgin?
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.You Dancing tadpole are VERY dangerous.

[wow400] 17/5/2010 18:25

And BASSA lose again!

Strikes off - injunction granted!

[montyhedge] 17/5/2010 18:16

Probable ask for gov funding 9 months time.

[dancing piranha] 17/5/2010 17:53

Virgin should be our national carrier! Not this donkey of an excuse of a company........

[bartram] 17/5/2010 08:47

Another fine upstanding BASSA/UNITE character:

[bobp] 17/5/2010 07:50

LHR and LGW closed /n but open again this morning apparently

[selborne_edge] 16/5/2010 21:18

Sadly UNITE seems to have the volcano on its side but at least the two threats (UNITE and the volcano) might complicate strike preparations for the union.

[selborne_edge] 16/5/2010 21:13

Why on earth should a bunch of militants be given 'perks' of any sort. UNITE wants to bring BA to its knees and will certainly use any show of weakness on the part of management to exact more concessions.

[wow400] 16/5/2010 14:34

Found this on another website. From BASSA to it's members :-0

Thinking of Working?

The emperor's new clothes...please read on.

Forget the media hype and the BA news hysteria.

British Airways is not going out of business and is not going to be destroyed by you taking part in lawful industrial action - but your union will be if you don't.

The only person increasingly likely to damage British Airways is Mr. Walsh and he is doing a pretty good job of that all by himself.

What CEO in their right mind would drag their own company through a month of bad publicity just to prove a point? Trouble is nobody will tell him; anybody that dared to air an alternative view has been silenced, or has
simply moved on.

If you choose to go to work over this next dispute, then you too are playing along with the "I am backing BA, flag waving crowd" - sadly this is an empty chant, invented by cynical managers who have worked for this company for a couple of years, yet this "sound bite" is also being unquestioningly and naively swallowed by people who have worked for BA for decades who really should know better. Their loyalty should be to the airline that they remember, not to the one being rebuilt in Mr. Walsh's image. For when it's their turn to be sacrificed for greater profit, make no mistake, they will be, pilots included.

We are all British Airways, not just those who work in Waterside; what gave them the right to hijack our airline's good name for their own ends?

If the same number that broke the strike before do so again, then it's over; your union has been destroyed, not by Mr. Walsh - he could never achieve that - but by you from within, by deserting us when the going got tough.

We all have to decide what we want; we are grateful for everybody that believes they are standing up for their union, though we greatly appreciate that, we want you to know that this is really all about standing up for YOU.

At the end of the day, it's your job, your life, your career and your bills that have to be paid. British Airways no longer wants you to have your flying agreements, they have told you that; that's why they have already introduced new contracts and soon, a new fleet.

What stops them from putting you on new fleet, declaring you surplus, ending any part of any agreement they choose? Not a lot to be honest.

90 days notice, that's about it.

Only a few hurdles are still in their way - cabin crews' belief in their own rights and a strong union to fight for them.

If you chose - and it will be your choice - to break the strike and go to work, you have effectively and actively chosen to serve notice on both of these, in that one gesture.

The strike is over imposition. Why? To send a clear message to British Airways that you value your agreements and are willing to fight to protect them; this resolve is what will protect you in an uncertain future. If you're not bothered, then let's stop fooling ourselves, it's over.

Unite has compromised so much to try and get a deal and thus avoid you having to go on strike, as we know this can be a daunting prospect, but let's be brutally honest, this has been to the point of being seen as almost desperate and at times almost embarrassing how conciliatory we were all prepared to be. While Mr. Walsh has persistently rejected every compromise, remained openly provocative and deliberately confrontational.

If you are not concerned by all of this, fair enough. Go to work and be counted by Willy Walsh every single day, on every single news channel around the world, as a number, a statistic he can use to show how much cabin crew "support him" and his actions.

It's a blunt message but a true one; there are no hiding places left for any of us, no fence to sit on - you're either with Mr. Walsh and Mr. Francis and ALL that they stand for, or your colleagues that are standing up for what's right. There is no middle ground left anymore.

No second chance, right or wrong, this is a moment in your personal history.

It's up to you; by all means go to work, but in doing so you are making a bed for us all to lie in, that is why we are appealing and pleading to every single person, no matter what decision you made over the previous strike, to now support yourselves before its too late.

We are sorry if this message sounds a little harsh or even negative, but what needs to be said needs to be said, before it's too late. If it is over and your union is destroyed, then your job will change beyond recognition in theyears to come. We do not want there to be any doubt that we tried to warn you.

Tuesday 18th May - See you there or not, It's up to you...

If you have already decided to break the strike, there are no hard feelings you are still fellow crew, we would only ask you to consider printing this out, putting it away in a draw. In few years from now, you may [come]across it and reflect what might have been.

"If we fight for our rights and our dignity, we cannot promise you that we will win but if we don't, then we have already lost them."


Oh dear :(