Anglo Pacific Share Discussion Threads

[haydock] 14/2/2013 18:52

Agreed a bit hasty & below the belt.

Sincere apologies.

Just trying to keep you & the newly all signing & dancing bb. up to scratch.

Enjoying the s. p. rise.

Cheers Hay.

[jonnyboy1] 14/2/2013 18:20

QP you miss the point entirely. Every CB wants inflation, inflation is largely bad for miners, price goes up but margins don't so price goes up more. Royalties reap the benefit.

Keep things simple. Less words more coin. I waste my breath here so do as you wish and short this with anything other than a 5 minute mindset.

[quepassa] 14/2/2013 18:15

Will respond in detail tomorrow to that (snide) remark.

QP

[haydock] 14/2/2013 18:05

Perhaps unlike Q.P. someone had a look at the Money Observer ranking of investment trusts doing a similar job to APF.

There has always been value & good management at APF even without knowing about the CDN. coal.
Simply a case of rereating the prospects & all those newly unfetterd Financial advisers doing a good job perhaps?
DYOR.

[mozy123] 14/2/2013 13:33

The chase for yeild is on! Globally

[prenvest] 14/2/2013 13:29

Maybe all those negatives were priced in and and the rise is chasing
perceived future value.

[haywards26] 14/2/2013 12:28

Quite a rise since the results of yesterday....Surely this rise is due to another factor, as the results in themselves were disappointing in regards decreasing profits, decreasing net asset value and decreasing funds. hmmm

[haydock] 13/2/2013 14:06

QP.
All this is way above my senile old level.
If you want to further enlighten us on discounts, i suggest you try:

Money Observer jan ed.
Investment Trusts.
Global Growth & Income for the nearest comparison.
DYOR.

Cheers Hay.

[christh] 13/2/2013 12:59

QP,
It seems you don't own shares but yet you argue with APF shareholders.

The discount of 25% is already factored in from 340p
If you are not happy with the APF , you can always move to other companies like BT or BG where they
are Ftse 100 stocks.
At least you will stop wingeing about APF.

[quepassa] 13/2/2013 12:05

I think you need to look again at that.

The Company value is not £353m in my view. It is £301million as measured by net assets.

The figure of £353m includes £52.5m of LIABILITIES (mostly deferred tax).

You have seemingly confused gross or TOTAL ASSETS with NET ASSETS. - As you know, NET ASSETS is the figure which the company is technically worth and which is normally taken to represent shareholder capital. Total Assets LESS Liabilities. That is to say, NAV or NET ASSET VALUE.

If you strip those out those future tax liabilities, you arrive at £301million which in my opinion is the real value / shareholder value / NAV of the Company.

Please verify these figures for yourself.

You can also see on ADVFN analytics that NET ASSET VALUE PER SHARE is around 270/280p per share.

For an " investment trust" to be trading at near 100% of NET ASSETS versus Market Cap, with no meaningful discount to NAV is , in my view, far too expensive and does not factor in any discount whatsoever for the assets it is invested in, many of which are highly illiquid and not readily realisable, nor the risks involved with the sector in which APF operates.

But in some ways, you are right and a company of this nature with such illiquid and some hard to value assets should be trading at a discount.

For me, a discount of 15% would be a starting point. But given the nature of the assets, I would personally feel more comfortable with a discount to NAV of some 25-30% at a time when profits are so down on previous years and when the profits barely cover the dividend, if at all.

ALL IMO. DYOR.

QP

[haydock] 13/2/2013 11:44

The mkt treats it as a good value investment trust with a really good growing dividend.
Buying into a rising dividend @ 15% discount, with increasing profit prosects for next year, even when you & the rest know nowt about CDN coal, is a no brianer.

[christh] 13/2/2013 11:24

Hay,
The market likes a good divi , growth, no debt, good management.
I hope it will get back to 360p and re-enter the ftse 350.
Looked at the report and it is a fast growing companies with all the new royalties starting this year.
The coal prices will improve so is the iron ore.
I have not seen anything mentioned about the royalty in Albania not in the Pilbara railway.
Most likely this year will reach the highs of 2011 and maybe go beyond.
The cash in 2011 were £32mln but now is £24mln althouh more royalties have been added and the assets increased to £353 mln.
Wait to see the directors buying.



The dividend is very attractive for pension funds.

[haywards26] 13/2/2013 11:01

I am surprised the market likes the results as much as the share price increase of so far today indicates.

Falling profits, Kestrel problems (weather and work disruptions) - I expected a sharp fall. But am glad there has been such, as 2013 should be a better year with the increased royalties form Kestrel and additional royalty income from Spain.

[haydock] 13/2/2013 10:44

Market cap: £298.13 million
Company value £353m
Discount:15%
I always look at APF as an investment trust.

[haydock] 13/2/2013 10:35

Listened, string of figures & repeat of facts.
Nobody had any real questions & nobody had heard anything at all about the CDN. coal.
Company as solid accountant lead & as secretive as ever, nice safe balence sheet.
Mkt likes it anyway.

[piedro] 13/2/2013 09:25

Conference beginning shortly ....

[johnrxx99] 13/2/2013 08:52

Not brilliant results. Mr market will wait for the next set imo.

[christh] 13/2/2013 08:08

Dividend increased to 5.75p totalling 10.2p a year.Good yield.
£24m in cash ready to bounce in another royalty opportunity.
And as always Debt free.

Excellent company!

[montyville2] 12/2/2013 11:08

I have a relatively small holding in APF which I have held for a coulpe of years now..over that period I am marginally down although I have picked up valuable dividends in the meantime - so my investment is probably 5% down over the period.

This morning I have reviewed my investment here as I have been disappointed by the performance over the last few months.

Here is my current take:

The mining industry has clearly had a tough year due to a slowing global economy which has affected APF the same as many other good resource stocks. Conversely this presents an opportunity for APF to pick up good royalty opportunities on the cheap!

APF's royalty income is disproportionately swayed to Rio's Kestrel mine in Australia which was affected by bad weather and down time last year which resulted in a significant reduction in income lain the first half. In addition we had to repay an overpayment in tax which made this reduction worse. The second half should be much better. Spain is also ramping up production which is positive.

Given all this I think there is scope for a vast improvement in the results tomorrow and I am reasonably happy to hold. Of course I will have to wait and see if my prognosis is right tomorrow and re-evaluate from then...

Good luck all

[nielsc] 12/2/2013 09:53

QuePassa,

I don't agree with your views and you don't agree with mine. Objecting to somebody's view doesn't make them paranoid! Its a discussion/argument, call it what you want.

I would say you are as stubborn as me as for all this discussion I guess your view of APF hasn't changed.


.. and yes. I am bored by your arguments as well ;-)

Cheers,
Niels

[quepassa] 12/2/2013 09:38

Funny one!

didn't think i needed it this time!

[ned] 12/2/2013 09:32

Good Luck to All.

ALL IMO. DYOR.

You left this off QuePassa

[quepassa] 12/2/2013 09:17

can you read? i did not say your views were irrational. ON THE CONTRARY, I SAID I RESPECTED YOUR VIEWS. I said the fact you could not tolerate differing views to yours was verging on paranoia.

you are so boring by now.

yawn, yawn, yawn.

[haydock] 12/2/2013 09:13

This market has forgotten what a pump & dump looks like & i don't mean just APF.

Nobody left to do it anymore, all on derivatives.

The money was supposed to be coming in big time according to the press a few weeks ago, well everybody must still be waiting on the shelf.

Results tomorrow, exciting times, i might even get out of bed !!