Afc Energy Share Discussion Threads

[beeezzz] 25/8/2011 16:00

Another article deriding AFC's fuel cell technology, sends share price lower. On iii board.

[holism] 24/8/2011 11:36

Realism we are in August, lets see where we are come October.

[realism] 23/8/2011 13:19

low volume always let the share price go down!

[androyd] 20/8/2011 19:43

I think solardave has been out in the Sun too long!

[ianous] 20/8/2011 19:36

Solardave - thanks for the technical analysis, you really know how to work those charts.

[beeezzz] 20/8/2011 19:33

Norbus - I'm pretty sure they would not build two identical 50KW Stacks if they didn't work, no one in there right mind would waste there time unless they knew it works. The staff are reasonably intelligent people.

Unlike ITM they do not have to rely on a huge amount of infrastructure to be put in place to enable easy access to customers.

[solardave] 20/8/2011 18:11

An interesting chart with a strong downward trend since November last year. Looks like this will drop below the 40p funding level this coming week.

Any sign of the new CEO?

[lordgibil] 18/8/2011 19:21

Norbus,

You say you have been slagging AFC off for 2 years? Well you may as well carry on because the share price has quadrupled since you started even with all the recent awful macro-economic factors.

I used to feel annoyed regarding your constant bad mouthing of AFC but don't care any more because your efforts count for nothing, you really are wasting your time. It's quite sad really.

To say AFC is a scam is quite clearly ridiculous. Maybe you have noticed Linc taking on another 2% recently and they will have seen the beta system operating and will also have seen more data than you or I will ever be privy to?

Should we trust you of all people because you have "a feeling" or should we believe the RNS's coming out of the company and the respected companies and organisations that have become involved with AFC? Let me think...

[norbus] 18/8/2011 06:05

Good guys presided over scams before. Scams look for the best guys they can hire for the money. Look at the reputable guy they brought in on the board of RCG !. Regulatore should not allow, but they leaver it to Nomads and Nomads like fees. The science here is much better exposed than the telephone technology was in Bell's time

I closed the shorts on principle. Never liked the idea of shorting anything, and having done it, I was not comfortable I hope punters here get to keep their trousers on. I did not say investors, as I doubt seasoned investors would be into this.

[drewz] 16/8/2011 23:31

Norbus,

No doubt if Alexander Graham Bell told you in 1875 he was developing a working telephone which would enable folk in Glasgow to speak to others in London, you would have described it as bonkers and a scam. And not without good reason.

Bell and his partners, Hubbard and Sanders, offered to sell the patent outright to Western Union for $100,000. The president of Western Union balked, countering that the telephone was nothing but a toy.

Every new technology in development is an unproven potential failure or potential 'scam' until it is shown to work, which is why AFC is still so heavily discounted in relation to its potential value.

It's worth a small flutter, 'cos they might yet prove the sceptics wrong and get the thing to work.

Oh and Tim Yeo seems like a good egg. I can't possibly imagine him presiding over a scam.

[lordgibil] 16/8/2011 18:36

Norbus, looks like you are a bit impulsive making your investment decisions one day and changing your mind the next. Shame you didn't short ITM from it's high and stick with it, you'd have made more money. So you have a "feeling"? thanks for sharing that, I'll sell all my shares in AFC tomorrow.

[norbus] 16/8/2011 16:10

What goes round comes round. I thought this was a scam a couple of years back and said so. I see the conversations still have the same scepticism as to what is really under the bonnet. I shorted this, with ACTA at ~ 63/55 respectively.
I did not feel good shorting anything, so I closed both shorts the next day.

This feels exactly as ACTA did. Driven by a difficult idea, motivated by a desire to make a killing, and surviving on moneybags looking for something to do. Really hope I am wrong, as this will not do the battered sector any good at all. Good luck all who put money here. you need it.

[marben100] 13/8/2011 16:40

New Tech - funnily enough I applied to go to the open day but the company said it was full. 50kW is what was stated a long time ago. When did you receive that information? None of the recent RNSs mention it. Why don't they clarify it on the website or in RNSs? What I do know (from the RNSs) is that they've had to completely redesign the electrodes since last year, based on metal rather than the polymer film previously used.

Concerning the system at Akso-Nobel, it's only ever been run for a few weeks at a time, for test purposes. Clearly wasn't ready for commercial use yet.

I attended one of the company's open days last year and they seemed much less well advanced than the impression I had previously.

What I don't like about AFC is that one gets the impression that everything is ready to go and just needs scaling up. See for example, this RNS from July 2009:

"...In a bid to bring to market an ultra low carbon emission technology to convert coal into electricity, Thornton New Energy Ltd and Waste2Tricity Ltd have signed a memorandum of understanding. Also allowing for the capture of carbon dioxide as part of the process, the proposed joint venture is the UK's first commercial application to generate clean electricity from coal, combining new generation AFC Energy fuel cells with UCG and other proven technologies..."

suggesting that AFC's fuel cells were a "proven technology" then. Yet two years on we're hoping to commission a beta system and no sign of a commercial system yet.


Sorry, New Tech but this just doesn't smell right to me. When I compare against Ceres, the latter's RNSs are straightforward, admit to problems that have arisen (which you would expect for a new technology*) - and offer a clear path to solving them. They have also set out a clear timetable to delivery of REAL commercial systems (and acknowledged slippage against it, whilst also achieving several key milestones). Ceres has far more resources than AFC (cash, personnel and plant) yet sits on a much lower market cap at present. It also has plenty of advance orders for its products (totalling over 70,000 units). The relative valuations make no sense to me.

*AFC's proposed product is based on a older type of fuel cell - but, in the past, it has not proved possible to make alkaline fuel cells commercially viable for large scale applications. They've only ever been used for specialist applications, such as spacecraft power, where cost is no object. AFC have yet to prove that they can produce a commercially viable product - as have the other fuel cell companies, including Ceres.

Cheers,

Mark

[transforma] 13/8/2011 15:48

Drewz

I understand that AFC and ITM are actually very supportive of each other on a company level. The ITM Power results were very good and show that hydrogen and fuel cells are coming up. This bodes well for AFC.

ITM Results
0.43m product sales in Q1
0.82m of grant funding in Q1
Burn rate down

Results Presentation

[beerbandit] 12/8/2011 11:13

French banks are considering legal action against individuals who spread unfounded rumors about them, the French banking federation said Friday.

In a statement, the industry group said, "In view of unfounded rumors that have circulated persistently in the markets, French banks are looking at all possible measures, including legal ones, at their disposal."

The share prices of leading French banks, especially Societe Generale SA (GLE.FR), were roiled earlier this week by market rumors that the banks' financial situation has been made shaky by their exposure to Greek sovereign debt. The banks have heatedly denied the rumors.

The federation also said it welcomed a decision by the French financial markets regulator AMF to forbid short-selling of 11 financial stocks, including those of the major traded banks.

[dia43] 11/8/2011 22:23

YEH, suckers like Peter Bond and the private investors who havestummed up £m's over the last 12months?

[beeezzz] 11/8/2011 16:51

Well hopefully we have seen the bottom for this year on Monday about 9.30am ftse at 4,791 computers were probably set to mimic last year where it bottomed at 4799 in July 10, below the 4,800 level. so should see a gradual climb from here, although it will gyrate at bit.

So 15/09/11 it is then, looking forward to the news, can't make myself.

[new tech] 11/8/2011 15:04

marben100

Prefer you don't deramp. The basic system comprises modules said to have an output of around 50KW output apparently scaleable to several mega watts. They have had a small fuel cell on site with Akzo Nobel in Germany for some time (very specifically targeted towards the chlor-alkali industry) prior to the wider roll out of larger Beta units announced today.

If you need any further information, I suggest you join one of AFC's next open days in September or October (see the footnoote) when you will be able to see the Beta system and ask questions. Extensive inormation is also available by clicking the links in the thread heading - not too difficult, although you will have to then read the words.

Thanks.

P.S.
AFC (30/6/2011):

"AFC Energy is also pleased to advise shareholders that they will be able to see the first Beta system at the Company's premises in Dunsfold, Surrey during open days on 15 September and 12 October 2011. It is anticipated that this system will incorporate all of the improvements from the HAZOP. Places at the open days will be limited and are offered to all shareholders on a first come first served basis through the Company's website".

[geraldratner] 11/8/2011 13:59

Beerbandit well put. If you had shorted almost any natural resource stock over the last 6 months you would have made a killing. The returns here for that period have been poor in comparison for shorters. So certainly nothing to brag about especially as this has a 10% SB spread. Now shorting Ceres thats a different matter, that would have been very profitable indeed over 6 months, a year or more. Unfortunatly some people are just too proud to admit when they are wrong even if it ends up costing them money.