Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[supernumerary] 22/2/2017 13:06

Does it really matter? One order for £100K 3 months ago won't buy the emperor many new clothes will it? Hardly worth fighting over...

Still, I expect it will all change next year - like every other next year in vrs's existence ;¬)

[simon templar qc] 22/2/2017 13:01

supergule

EKT was working with Manchester UNI before he picked the technology up now get your facts right!!!!

You are wrong!!!

Now I suggest you call NR and get the low down if you don't you will make a number of EKT shareholders very angry indeed.

Then I expect an apology!

[superg1] 22/2/2017 13:01

Simon I agree re Carbide and said I have no idea re the copper foam circs.

As for the graphene side and 2D tech I think you have that wrong and have previously had conversations with Neill about how they found 2D tech.

If it was with Elektron (which I seriously doubt) then yes Elektron were mad to allow it to slip through their hands.

[superg1] 22/2/2017 12:57

BTW
Simon is a fan Neill and thinks he is a hard working boss which EKT should have held onto.

When VRS was created the CEO had no idea 2D tech existed, and VRS acquired 2D as a spin out from Manchester Uni. The 2D tech technology came from Ulster Uni.

Neill left Elektron in December 2010. As I understand it Ulster (from the research reports) hadn't made the breakthrough then.

hey ho I was only trying to help and currently believe Simon is completely wrong. Simon appears seriously p'd off with Elektron.

[smithless] 22/2/2017 12:56

Not saying this is a bad company, but the current valuation looks high on the back of the increase loss warning given on 19 jan 2017. By my estimations its nearly out of cash with the greater than expected loss. It's YE 31 mar and it will have to do a fund raising before the auditors can sign off. £26m mkt cap looks to high for the risks IMHO. News flow ramp?

[simon templar qc] 22/2/2017 12:49

If you don't believe me call NR and ask him, I can assure you Elektron had the technology before NR renamed it under the Versarien umbrella.

Elektron Chairman virtually gave it away that is why EKT shareholders are aggrieved.

[superg1] 22/2/2017 12:38

Thanks Simon we'll agree to differ then. I've spoken to the 2D tech team and the CEO on the topic. I originally didn't want them to get involved with Manchester Uni.

Apparently I was an ex Chief Inspector in Mayfair (I wish).

[superg1] 22/2/2017 12:35

Lol

I thought those names would be low level uk composite folk. Tencate is a market leader over 1 billion euros in sales.

The link up was the head of business development for Tencate with the specific role of interiors for aircraft.

As I said while back graphene enhanced plastics and carbon fibre either add strength or offer the same strength for less weight. Reducing weight is a huge topic for the Aerospace industry.

It may mean nothing but it's a run of new names appearing. Given all the names on linkedin they happen to be names in composites.

The zulu principle.

[simon templar qc] 22/2/2017 12:33

Super..this posted on EKT


Simon Templar QC

22 Feb '17 - 12:29 - 785 of 785    0   0   Edit
superg1

You think you have the low down on TC and graphene but you are wrong.

The Graphene was originally the baby of Elektron and it was given to NR as part of a compromise agreement to NR.

Elektron then sold TC at undervalue NR was desperate for the company at the time to fable to proceed with further development of graphene.

Now with respect go back to your own board!

.......

I know NR quite well now don't try and tell me about Graphene it belonged to Elektron prior to NR developing the material further!

You may be an x police officer but you are wrong on this one!

[superg1] 22/2/2017 12:20

Aerospace and others



same again F1 too.



ditto

The other two I have noted their websites before so they must be links, marine type stuff and trailers.

The 3 above are new to me so I'm going to look them up. They have come up as viewed along with the VRS business development manager. Typically this can mean they are linked or have met up.

For the VRS CEO the chairman of Central Asia metals has appeared which makes no sense at all to me.

[superg1] 22/2/2017 12:12

Sandbag

A bit like some instis/funds then.

VAST had a dose of that behaviour but survived.

[superg1] 22/2/2017 12:08

I track Linkedin to se who is linking up with who and pre Nanene launch it had been pretty static with the usual names.

Anyone that has been here a while will know I do do that.

For the VRS BDM link ups with Dura composites, Ipeco composites, IWT composites, Lentus composites and Tencate advanced composites all look like new arrivals to me.

I've no idea re any of those companies, size or sector but will have a look

[roboben] 22/2/2017 12:00

Very best wishes to you too Spike - and to all the others on here who could tell similar stories!

[superg1] 22/2/2017 11:54

There is one thing I track on the copper foam (about the only thing for now) and that's the Prieto battery in the US.

A uni set up with Intel and now Stanley Black and Decker also in the game. The battery won a clean tech award in the US in December 16.

A battery takes time and that one may never happen but my interest in that one is the VRS copper foam within the battery.

If Prieto crack a viable solid state battery having used VRS copper foam in trials, then what???

It's been going for a while that one and could be a while yet with nothing at the end, but a potential left field event.


Intel comment at the time

Intel will invest in Prieto Battery in stages, as the company meets technology performance benchmarks in the push to create a battery that charges faster, stores more energy and extends battery life. In exchange, Prieto products will be used in Intel computing devices.

Intel’s involvement “will accelerate the commercialization of our battery,” Prieto said.

[sandbag] 22/2/2017 11:52

sg1,

"It is right imo not to spend money to meet such an order with all your early eggs in one basket of a deal that could be ended any time and perhaps post a large spend on a load of equipment."

Very wise too. I believe the late Lord Weinstock used the ploy to buy small companies cheaply. Gave them lots of work and encouraged the owners to buy new equipment on credit. The when they were fully extended he stopped the work. They had no option but to sell him their company cheaply.

[spike_1] 22/2/2017 11:50

Roboben: not sure about 'Friends Reunited', reminds me more of the call to 'bring out your dead' (no offense intended - obviously ;0)

Good that you've got these too, yes it does help a bit with the wounds, and eventually hopefully will help a lot.

Very best wishes - Mike

[superg1] 22/2/2017 11:26

Copper foam

That happens to be the lead re performance too with a decent number trialling it (is it 130, 150 or higher I forget).

The trouble there is it's disruptive as it knocks out whatever is being used by a customer then if that links into multiple parts for a particular products the heat sink supplier can use the thumb screw method of not supplying other parts if they pull out.

I don't look into that much and treat it as left field event potential.

On the open day the CEO described early on how early they requests for 500k and 1 mill units per month which they simply could not supply at the time. It is right imo not to spend money to meet such an order with all your early eggs in one basket of a deal that could be ended any time and perhaps post a large spend on a load of equipment.

[spike_1] 22/2/2017 10:54

sg - I'll be dead by the time FUM actually get effective real production off the ground, and enough profit that it actually extends beyond the BOD, and into the hands of shareholders.

I gave up on FUM quite a while ago now, losing money (no surprise there) in the process ho hum.

Cheers - Mike

[superg1] 22/2/2017 10:47

BTW

I'm not defending Carbide. I'm not invested for Carbide. If Vrs came to the market with just the copper foam, 2D tech and now Cambridge graphene there would be hardly any revenue but imo a market cap way higher and multiples of now.

Looking at the flip side without the Carbide dip BR and others wouldn't have created a 10p opportunity for businesses they probably didn't know about let alone understand.

So what we had and still have is an option to get in on at low prices on what looks like lucrative potential on the back of businesses that didn't exist at the start.

Carbide is what had me sitting out saying nothing about the other businesses. I could see the sell off due to oil and it was always going to continue from the high of 26-30p or whatever it was at the time.

If Carbide were to continue to disappoint in the coming years then yes I can see them dumping it.

I am not in for Carbide, I just know how the market reacted to oil and the related news.

If Hardide is seeing an uptick in interest due to oil, then it's likely similar companies are seeing the same results.

[spike_1] 22/2/2017 10:40

Off Topic - skylite: er ... re visit to the pub: I recognised the face (yours) but a lot of expensive therapy had gone into successfully erasing as much of IOF's history / story as possible, hence me no longer connecting your BB name, and as you hadn't posted on the VRS BB I didn't know if you had come on board or not.

Anyway - have now re-booked with the therapist, and we'll see how it goes this time .... mutter ........ mutter ...... dribble ...... dribble ....

[superg1] 22/2/2017 10:31

Carbide

July 15

Hard wear Products reported sales of GBP4.6m and operating profit of GBP884,000 during a period of relatively high oil prices. As the oil price has declined the market for our products has weakened. We have mitigated this by diversifying our customer base to include new territories and sectors.

Dec 15

Hard Wear Products

The sustained low oil price has materially affected some of our customers so our planned diversification away into other sectors, including metrology and defence has helped mitigate the effect of the downturn in the oil sector. It is pleasing that the business has provided a 14% return on sales pre-exceptional items. We continue to look for business in other markets and territories and will be well placed when the oil sector picks-up.

April 16

whilst trading in the Company's profitable Hard Wear Products division remains constrained, primarily due to continuing low capex in the oil and gas sector, progress is being made with customers in other sectors.

Jul 16

Hard Wear Products

Our strategy with Hard Wear products is to target new markets where there is less competition and to utilise existing manufacturing capacity for the production of copper foam which requires similar engineering equipment and has long term growth prospects.

Even before the sharp decline in market conditions, sales of tungsten carbide in the oil and gas industries were already facing intense competition from the Far East. Against this backdrop and period of transition, Hard Wear products delivered a creditable performance. Revenue for the year was GBP3.1 million (2015: GBP4.6 million) with an EBITDA of GBP0.3 million (2015 GBP1.1 million), generating cash of GBP0.2 million (2015: GBP0.5 million).

We are developing new market opportunities and products aimed at the defence and aerospace industries, and during the year secured our first supply agreement in the latter.

Nov 16

The Hard Wear product market has experienced extended difficult trading conditions as a result of the oil price slump and was largely responsible for the reduction in Group turnover in the year. However, there are early signs of recovery, albeit small, and we are well placed to take advantage of any upturn. Our strategy has not changed in that we are targeting new markets where there is less competition.

[superg1] 22/2/2017 10:22

The KLF

I visited the factory. Oil companies can't drill without bearings and other parts. It could mean on costs savings they go for cheaper options, but cheap options normally mean you get what you paid for and part failures cost a lot more than the getting reliable parts.