Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[supernumerary] 01/3/2017 23:42

DrAD - I must admit I was thinking more of a centrifuge design, to give sustained high loads, but it would surely be difficult and expensive to design and build. And you'd probably still need that sort of simulator on top to get the dynamic loads.

Understand about the greater responsibility - some folks like it, some don't - I knew a guy who had a nervous breakdown when he got to fulfill his dream of running his own business!

[luckyorange] 01/3/2017 22:58

Didn't realise the story behind that Richard Mille watch, well I wouldn't! Read the story here



He sponsors Haas as well as McLaren.

[superg1] 01/3/2017 22:25

So why have Williams (F1) recently taken on a scientist from Oxford who specialises in nano and heavily involved with graphene.

More on that tomorrow but it seems Mclaren are not alone.

[superg1] 01/3/2017 22:21

DrAndrew

Vrs are already producing enhanced graphene parts via 3D printing. A tweet recently has a picture of it in progress.

[dr andrewd] 01/3/2017 20:25

On the engine failure topic, there is a Porsche video of engine testing at low power trying to simulate g force, but this will be 1g max not 4 or 5g that's the car goes through. I'm not aware of any F1 teams having a full power version, it might be possible.



With more than 1000 employees in some F1 teams, you usually get to look after a pretty small cog in the machine. I now get to look after all parts of many complex machines, much more rewarding and challenging.

For composites in the chassis, back in the 80's they went from welding steel to laying up composites, so a huge change and lots to learn, hence the issues they had. They now have all the design tools well and truly sorted. The only issue will be accurate data for the composite when it contains GNPs which is likely to take a fair amount of testing to get the composition right and data for the computer models. It should only take a couple of months or so to crack it though.

Just thinking aloud, lots of the scale model car parts for wind tunnel testing are made by additive manufacturing (3D printing). This could be somewhere that makes production of good quality wind tunnel car parts much quicker if GNPs are added to the plastic, and these days most of the car performance comes from aerodynamics. The ultimate goal is to make parts used on the real car by 3D printing and graphene could help enable that. A topic that requires more research.

[superg1] 01/3/2017 17:34

Talking of linkedin names appearing alongside VRS staff.

These have just appeared



and Cobham advanced composites who are part of this group.

[superg1] 01/3/2017 17:19

Ignoring that there are a few names linked to the composites centre that have appeared on Linked next to names from VRS.

Cytec/Solvay and Tencate.

Now I can see where these link ups are coming from.

I also note Hexcel are a partner too. Now they are the ones that said if anyone has proof of performance they their strategy is to utilise the benefits as fast as possible.

from the pdf (in the header)

Hexcel’;s objectives for nanomaterial investigations are:
 To retain an open mind
 To seek clear repeatable data that shows a cost effective benefit from
the nanomaterial
 To utilise these benefits in product development as fast as possible

[superg1] 01/3/2017 17:12

I'm not sure the helicopter blade is to do with VRS as it mentions nanoribbons.

[superg1] 01/3/2017 17:04

Jointer

An excellent find and very interesting. As you may well know CT supply Airbus.

Airbus in the UK have a Bristol base and Ct engineering are in Bristol too.

CT are based at the 'Bristol and Bath Science Park, Bristol'

The kick on further and the 'National composites centre' is in the Bristol and Bath Science Park, Bristol..

Then if you look at the national composites centre partners it includes an impressive list including Airbus.

On top of that in recent days and weeks I had been looking at an all composite Helicopter by Airbus, and also read about Victrex (I believe) doing PEEK/PAEK for Helicopter door hinges.

I will pick back through it but that alone shows there is action on a collaboration not stale waiting.

Further it sparks up more interest (for me) in that meeting at the centre for additive layer manufacturing in Exeter sponsored by Victrex with Airbus, Boeing and VRS present. The pdf re that is in the header.

An impressive partner list

[rogerbridge] 01/3/2017 16:59

We may need news of further orders or distribution agreements before we rise into the 20's.
NR, is doing the right thing by talking to some big players, we just need more news which will come in time.

[handygandhi] 01/3/2017 16:40

An interesting anecdote, sandbag.

[luckyorange] 01/3/2017 16:39

cor blimey guv, that was a quiet day.

[sandbag] 01/3/2017 16:12

Back in the seventies helicopter pilots in Nigeria used to put scotch tape on the leading edges of their blades to prevent damage from heavy rain during the wet season. I don't know what the blades are made of now but there's obviously a potential for damage protection as well as ice by using graphene.

Off topic:
Memories of a 1hr flight in a G2 where the tape had come off one blade and put the whole thing out of balance. It was like riding a horse and the pilot and I were both saddle sore for a couple of days. LOL!

[shavian] 01/3/2017 15:44

Wow. Graphene coating on the leading edge of aerofoils as a static de-icer. A boon for light aircraft and helis. As an old aviator why didn't I think of that? :0(

[jointer13] 01/3/2017 11:45

spike...fully agree

it was more the helicopter blade that was interesting

[spike_1] 01/3/2017 11:35

joiner: here is an earlier article to which your link refers:



As you can see the agreement between VRS and CT was announced in June last year, which means it is now considerably more advanced, than your article indicates.

From the article last June:
CT Engineering's position as a first tier supplier to Airbus Group specializing in advanced composite research & design and Versarien's protected graphene technology, will rapidly move this venture forward and produce a range of innovative products that will disrupt the current aerospace component market.

Best wishes - Mike

[jointer13] 01/3/2017 10:52

interesting

" Recent examples of progress made in this field include a graphene-based UAV made by UK collaboration, a graphene-enabled composite with potential uses in the automotive and aerospace industries, a collaboration between Versarien and the Spain-based CT Engineering to develop graphene-enhanced composite components for the aerospace industry, a novel coating of graphene nanoribbons in epoxy, that was proven effective at melting ice on a helicopter blade and more"

[superg1] 01/3/2017 09:05

Lucky

Hopefully the chancers will be off before any potential article appears.

The less info they get the better.

[superg1] 01/3/2017 08:35

Talking of printing.

Carbon fibre GNP enhanced printing heads mean a 2 man removal process rather than a crane on industrial systems.

For inkjets a graphene enhanced composite has less friction than current print heads.

VRS are working with Absolute engineering on that.

Established in 2000, Absolute have since gained a formidable reputation as the world’s premier supplier of woven carbon fiber-chambered doctor blade systems to the flexo industry.
Today, 5,000 installations later, we continue leading the field with unique solutions, tailored to your needs.
Our UK facility incorporates all processes of equipment - from market research and design to manufacture and customer care.

[superg1] 01/3/2017 08:17

Dr A

re

'I expect that you are right about this being too expensive at the moment.'

That may be because people look at the price of £400 per gram which is for research levels. What most don't know is the production costs.


SN

re

Regarding ink, sounds good, but it also sounded good in the 2-year old presentation


Which presentation.

The breakthrough by Cambridge to go to commercial print levels is recent. it's ready to go I heard and Serratia's detailed analysis of the scientific paper supports that.

As said before I spoke to VRS about why not NGI/UOM ink. If you look at the NGI method, post print it has to be compressed to get the right resistance. It was also said the NGI/UOM said that Cambridge is years ahead of them on graphene ink. As VRS are in the UOM/NGI via 2D-tech then they know what they are talking about.

So what Cambridge/VRS have is a ready to go water based graphene ink with it's own GNP production system that can work on existing printing presses at 100 meters per minute.

That's more than graphene ink breakthrough as it ticks a whole load of boxes in one hit. Not just commercial scale but no need to change a thing.

[shavian] 01/3/2017 07:59

Dyson buys Hullavington airfield (M4 J17) to create new tech park, stating that one focus will be on battery technology. Britain's Elon Musk?

Lots of scope for graphene applications!

[supernumerary] 01/3/2017 00:32

A bigger challenge than F1! Rather you than me ;¬)

Yes I was surprised by the concern about the shaft, but I think that quote was from last year, so presumably they've sorted it by now. But the oil starvation (if that's what it really was) you'd have thought they could simulate their way round. I'm actually a bit surprised they don't have some sort of centrifuge to create G-forces on a running engine - they should get down their nearest theme park!

I bow to your superior knowledge on the chassis, but I remember when they introduced CF it was regarded as quite a challenge to get it to deform safely. I'm still not sure where graphene is and is not allowed. F1's a great business if you want to start small and stay that way.

Regarding ink, sounds good, but it also sounded good in the 2-year old presentation...

[dr andrewd] 01/3/2017 00:15

Ex F1 - I left for a bigger challenge before the current spec of KERS was in the cars, but involved in most aspects of the cars. I am not fully up to date on all of today's regulations though.

A long shaft through the middle of the engine spinning at 125,000 rpm with masses on both ends will almost certainly create some headaches, but one than should be possible to sort out on the engine dyno at the factory.

Getting the oil system to work correctly can however be very tricky as simulation of the g forces from cornering etc is very difficult to do at the factory. Any oil starvation for the engine will kill it quickly. Perhaps the two are related, who knows.

In terms of when graphene would be used, carbon fibre is very good in tension, but relatively poor in compression or shear, the same properties that graphene nano platelets (GNPs) help with by improving the plastic that sticks the carbon fibres together.

SN - The main chassis would benefit from GNPs as it would be stiffer. If it was too strong, you would reduce the amount of material to reduce weight, reduce the centre of gravity height of the car giving the required strength resulting in a faster car. I expect that you are right about this being too expensive at the moment.

The crash structure is also likely to benefit, as the car can be decelerated at the same rate with less material.

The suspension parts are often under compression, so one area than could benefit a lot. Certainly an area than was difficult to make work several years ago.

Obviously graphene could be used in many places in the car for things like better battery cells, lighter wiring and electronics, the first application needs to be relatively cost effective with a good advantage and probably manageable to implement in the first instance.

Anyway, F1 teams can afford to add a £100k or so of graphene to the cars and hopefully VRS will make a good few quid from supplying the material, but that is unlikely to make VRS multi millions. That will come from wider applications. Printing is interesting as time to market could be quick. The potential is huge elsewhere and as VRS appear to be able to manufacture good quality material, hopefully it will be possible for lots of VRS customers to explore different applications which will result in some getting to market quickly.

[luckyorange] 28/2/2017 19:46

And over on the other side!

Today 18:24 luckyburgundy Same here 17.875 No Opinion
Tried a few times this afternoon would would not close out ?
Today 17:30 Hoodwinker Non settled 17.875 No Opinion
Anybody tried selling what they've bought over last 2 weeks? Give it a try, me and 2 other holders are getting unable to sell due to settlement issues , all with TD, appreciate if a dummy sell order tonight could confirm either way, cheers



What's that all about then?

[superg1] 28/2/2017 17:32

There is plenty of chat on the web about graphene potential in the chassis of cars. A Polish super car mentions it. But closer to home and perhaps more relevant.