Hargreaves Services Share Discussion Threads

[meijiman] 04/10/2016 09:22

I can see why. So many of my stocks have been surging ahead whilst this one does nothing.
Its activities seem to be linked to industries from the 19th century. I used to like these industrial companies but I realised a few years ago that there were better places to invest.

[cc2014] 03/10/2016 21:48

Interesting little update today but market still isn't interested.

I perceive that overall excess coal stocks both at HSP and competitors is being soaked up which can only be good news as I'm sure this has been holding the price back.

So that will be another £11m of assets converted into cash.

I can't see a reason not to stay in this trade but clearly the market just isn't interested.

[cjohn] 03/10/2016 12:07

Hello, I've followed this share for some time but have not been tempted to buy in, as I put it in the too difficult category. (I mean too diffcult for me.)

On a specific note, they're getting out of bulk termal coal belatedly, but is there actually a market for speciality coals?

[cc2014] 14/9/2016 13:08

Today we are sitting nicely above 190 and have 2 MM's on the bid at 190.

If you believe what you see there is a decent sized seller at 195. I wouldn't like to say if the seller is real or fake. If the seller is real he would be better off breaking up his trade size as it will put buyers off, therefore it might be fake and designed to hold the price down.

I don't know - sometimes trying to work things out doesn't help. I'm not selling regardless.

[cc2014] 12/9/2016 13:41

This is a good summary I have copied from another site

Coal surge to stoke Hargreaves
09 September 2016, 16:19

Surging coal prices could help speed up coal trader and miner Hargreaves Services' (HSP:AIM) plans to unlock 300p a share in business value.

Struggling Hargreaves has been a casualty of falling energy prices over the last three years, as well as recent mild winters and coal power station closures as the UK’s energy policy attempts to shift away from fossil fuels.

European coking coal prices bottomed in February and have gained more than 50% since, with thermal coal price gains, used to fuel power stations, not far behind. Coal is being imported from China into Europe to try and stem the price gains, according to a Bloomberg report.

Hargreaves, which is winding down its coal trading, still boasts coke and coal inventories of around £20 million, versus a market capitalisation of £61 million. Firmer demand and prices may help the business unwind stock more quickly at better prices, according to a person with knowledge of the business.

However, the benefit is expected to be one-off because Hargreaves’ remaining mining assets will produce coal for specialist markets including domestic, industrial and steam trains, where prices are less sensitive to global pricing.

Most of its plan to deliver 300p a share in shareholder value involves reducing exposure to energy markets by developing transport, logistics and construction businesses alongside a scaled down coal distribution unit.

Shares in Hargreaves trade at 190p a share, a discount to tangible book value of 401p a share reported through 31 May 2016.

Book value may not be a reliable gauge of value at mining companies, however, as shareholders in UK Coal found out when it was wound up in 2013. Most assets were sold or transferred to the company’s pension scheme, though shareholders retained some of their investment via a shareholding in property vehicle Harworth (HWG).

Land previously used for coal mining, of which Hargreaves boasts around 18,500 acres and plans to develop, may also incur unexpected costs for environmental remedial work, further reducing value.

Chief executive Banham bought £348,000 shares in April at 170p a share, according to Shares' online Director Dealing tool.

Shares in Hargreaves Services are down 26% year-to-date at 190p.

[meijiman] 12/9/2016 10:05

I think the HSP management would have been great in the late C18th at the beginning of the industrial revolution. Think coal transport/canal logistics/muck shifting. That was when coal had a great future. Not sure what the future is here. As CC said in the post above 'what it has been selling people don't want to buy anymore'. It's management's job to see the train heading towards you -the train is not unfortunately steam powered by coal ........

[cc2014] 08/9/2016 22:05

And finally whoever has been selling at 189-190 for what seems like the last 6 weeks appears to stopped. Can't be sure yet but at least they aren't ripping any volume at 190 off the order book within seconds now.

I have high hopes of moving back to 200 now.

[cc2014] 15/8/2016 15:12

For the coal they do produce they are price takers dependent on the global market.

This might help just a little.

[meijiman] 15/8/2016 13:24

Thanks -agree with your analysis on coal.I was once at Immingham and saw huge numbers of Hargreaves lorries taking coal from the port.But its a difficult company to analyse as much is uncertain particularly timing. I'm hopeful the land sales/developments acts as a catalyst for shareholder value.

[cc2014] 15/8/2016 12:15

I guess the question is whether they made enough money from those purchases when the price of oil was around $100 to pay for those investments. I don't know.

No market for coal now apart from some specialist uses which is why they will only have one operation in Scotland once Tower closes. This should already be in the share price.

Unless Theresa May bins the new reactor at Hinckley Point which may extend the life of some power stations. I don't think this very likely. Although I think she may bin the additional 3-4 reactors that were also originally planned.

[meijiman] 15/8/2016 08:47

Thanks that's a useful post. Clearly events did not pan out as the company expected. Not sure I entirely concur. Many people could have foreseen the collapse of the film market but Kodak management seemed oblivious until it was too late. Hargreaves management seemed keen on buying all sorts of coal assets in Wales and Scotland and the last deep mine in Yorkshire. Is there still a market for coal?

[cc2014] 15/8/2016 07:56

I have a positive view of the management. I wish I could find a reference quickly to assist with what I'm about to say but I think you will get my meaning.

The company is in the last phase of its life, dealing with an externally changing market. Effectively what it has been selling people don't want to buy any more, due to changing conditions. Usually this would be innovation, but in HSP case it is more down to government regulation and climate change. Think Kodak and film. Their market just went away because that's the natural cycle of a company.

This phase is quite difficult to handle for directors. It's not something most directors are experienced or interested in and it's additionally difficult because at this point the company is usually a cash cow too. It's producing loads of cash because it's no longer re-investing in it's traditional market. All too easy for the directors to do very little, bleed it dry, pay themselves decent salaries to the end and watch it go bust.

Our directors here have recognized the issues and are trying to use the cash to re-invent the company. I think they are doing a decent enough job. They've published their 5 year strategy and if delivered it will provide significant shareholder value.

I'm not sure what else you can say. It's not exactly their fault the government have brought forward aggressive coal related CO2 reduction, nor it is their fault we have had 2 incredibly warm winters, nor could you have forseen the extent of the imports in steel from China. What they have done is deal with this and have shut multiple sites and scaled the business back to suit the new levels of demand. It can't be easy driving to drive the company forward when you are constantly having to decide what to shut down and how fast.

I hope we have seen the last set of large scale impairments and the directors can focus on the future.

[meijiman] 12/8/2016 15:27

What is the general view of the management of this company. So many bad decisions-but it doesn't seem to be run as a normal company............

[beeks of arabia] 12/8/2016 15:08

Well I have bought back in again today and will continue to buy up to around the £2.50 mark.

[cc2014] 12/8/2016 11:03

Artemis pick up another 572k shares. The pattern appears to remain the same.

The large shareholders continue to pick up more and more and the shares become more and more tightly held

[cc2014] 11/8/2016 17:59

Some decent trades today at 185.0. I am hopeful that since the price closed above 185.0, the seller has finished.

I would be even happier if any of them are director buys.

[meijiman] 09/8/2016 08:53

Doubt death throes as support from NTAV. Very difficult to analyse/forecast this company.There seems little interest in it which is understandable...

[cc2014] 09/8/2016 08:53

Same old, same old. Results not great, dividend cut of that size surprised me.

It's all about the statement below, Shares worth £3.96+ (42.5*3.96/131) = £5.25 plus profit stream. The city seem to believe that by the time we get to a valuation of £5.25 it will have been eroded by more exceptional items. I don't agree, think this is significantly undervalued

Such is life, shares can remain wrongly valued for years sometimes.


Turning to the balance sheet, the net assets at the end of the year were GBP131m, equivalent to GBP3.96 pence per share. As noted above, we have set ourselves the medium term target of adding GBP35m to GBP50m of value to the property assets included within these net assets and at the same time converting our legacy assets into cash.

[beeks of arabia] 09/8/2016 08:13

Some pretty dire results.

Signs of life, or death throes?

[radiator] 01/8/2016 11:38

must be near that now, another 7 days will tell the tale

[cc2014] 01/8/2016 09:31

I expect the fall in oil price by 20% hasn't helped and has probably more than negated the exchange rate improvement.

Of course we should remember that coal only represents an increasingly small part of the business but nevertheless it can't have helped.

Oh and I see some small PI type selling when the bid gets close or at 200. Eventually anyone who wants to sell at 200 will have done so and the price will move on

[radiator] 28/7/2016 13:16

anyone know what causing the sit back and wait

[stopps] 27/7/2016 15:20

Looks like its leaving £2 behind.

[cc2014] 25/7/2016 09:23

very very interesting. There is a large buy walking up on L2 which started at 17881 shares about 3-4 working days ago at below 180. It's now sitting at 191 and still has 15553 shares to fill. For the first couple of days I was sure it was intended to push the price up but now I'm fairly confident it actually wants to get filled.

200 next target where I do expect to see a few sellers although it will also be interesting to see if any stops fire at the same point

[meijiman] 22/7/2016 13:49

I'm just worried that the company will enter another dying industry eg the manufacture of trumpets to serve the hunting industry.....