ADVFN Logo

We could not find any results for:
Make sure your spelling is correct or try broadening your search.

Trending Now

Toplists

It looks like you aren't logged in.
Click the button below to log in and view your recent history.

Hot Features

Registration Strip Icon for default Register for Free to get streaming real-time quotes, interactive charts, live options flow, and more.

HSP Hargreaves Services Plc

498.00
10.00 (2.05%)
28 Mar 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Hargreaves Services Plc LSE:HSP London Ordinary Share GB00B0MTC970 ORD 10P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  10.00 2.05% 498.00 494.00 500.00 510.00 494.00 497.00 181,174 16:35:06
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Sanitary Services, Nec 211.46M 27.92M 0.8510 5.80 162.05M
Hargreaves Services Plc is listed in the Sanitary Services sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker HSP. The last closing price for Hargreaves Services was 488p. Over the last year, Hargreaves Services shares have traded in a share price range of 378.00p to 530.00p.

Hargreaves Services currently has 32,803,355 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Hargreaves Services is £162.05 million. Hargreaves Services has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of 5.80.

Hargreaves Services Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1601 to 1623 of 3300 messages
Chat Pages: Latest  72  71  70  69  68  67  66  65  64  63  62  61  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
14/4/2016
11:56
I have added today as I'm a dirty bottom picker ;-)

Seriously oil and commodities have all bounced way off the bottom now and in this phase the second line stocks tend to lag. Oil I understand has crossed it's 200MA so that's a really strong signal

At the moment I perceive someone is selling and taking their losses as presumably they've made some money on the recent rise to pay for it. This is not unusual and tends to happen - I see it on a couple of other commodity related stocks as well.

If this is the bottom there is very reasonable upside for a bounce off an oversold position.

I will decide later whether this is a short term hold for a couple of months or whether I'm holding on for the big rise

cc2014
14/4/2016
09:04
Well, this company have come up on a screen I run for distressed turnaround possiblities. But having taken a closer look, there seems almost no possibility of a turn around. The core business is going. And I don't see they have sufficient FCF to fund significant acquisitions. The acquisition they have made looks speculative to say the least, though to be fair, the Price paid wasn't extortionate. (Great posts, Muckshifter et al.)

The property assets per se don't support the current share Price and besides will take years to realize.


The only posible salvation here is the redemption of coal. A tiny possibility of that happening.


So I'm ducking this one - for now. Good luck to holders.

cjohn
17/3/2016
16:12
Just looks like a car crash here. Huge strategic errors have been made and the share price has tanked. What is going to change things around? Buying other businesses might help in the longer term. An utter disaster really.
meijiman
16/3/2016
16:04
HOLDING IT DOWN?

Whats holding it down is the difficult area the company trades in.

When the Directors start buying it will look cheap.

Till they throw money at it ,it remains high risk

tiger

castleford tiger
16/3/2016
15:59
Wigwammer?
archibald meatpants
09/3/2016
19:11
Large trade at 199.0 today - presumably accounts for what's been holding the price down.
cc2014
24/2/2016
22:36
XD tomorrow 1.7p
cc2014
22/2/2016
22:59
CT - the main point of generating op profit is to build equity. They have equity in spades. Even during the annus horribilis you describe the equity hasn't fallen a great deal. They generated cash and paid down liabilities. These are facts. Not stories. Go look. Any clue they might be able to continue doing this.."the Board is confident that profitability can be maintained even in the face of such severe market conditions. The Board has already taken significant steps in reducing costs and restructuring the Group and these efforts are ongoing."Which of the areas you list may have a viable future? It doesn't matter - the house is already paid off. At a push - any and all areas may be salvageable at some level - commodity prices may rise, government policy may change, competitors may get into distress and leave the market, capacity may come out etc. Things aren't that predictable. You may be right near term - news flow might drag it lower. But you haven't really engaged my points - the movement in liabilities, tangible equity, and lower valuation suggest the investment has rarely been better protected. There is little evidence of the dramatic destruction you describe. Yes profits/turnover have fallen - but fixed costs are covered and the equity position appears stable. If you called this a few years back and the environment that goes with it - congratulations. Unlike some self professed experts here you appear capable of sharing some knowledge. But the problem with maintaining a negative position ad infinitum is that, unlike a few years ago, everyone now agrees with you (and they've already sold).
wigwammer
22/2/2016
18:06
Wigwammer

I think you are getting hung up on a part of the accounts.
The business carries fixed costs which yes they are trying to reduce. Headcount/fleet size etc.

What or which part of the business do you see generating profit going forward?

coal mining?
coal sales/distribution?
Haulage? general
haulage biomass?
plant business just bought?
service contracts?

I think the risk reward ratio needs to be much higher in the shareholders favour before this looks cheap.
Since GB took 8 million quid out just over 2 years ago its been downhill.
If the shares are so cheap just 25% of what he sold them for why is he not buying them back?

good luck
tiger

castleford tiger
22/2/2016
17:14
Purchased more today at 205p.News flow may remain weak in which case I will consider adding further.Value will out!
wigwammer
21/2/2016
17:25
Here are some further stats for you to mull:2012: total liabilities £306m, tangible equity £98m, share price = 7p2015: total liabilities £130m, tangible equity £130m, share price = 2pSo... You believe the visibility and risk attached to this stock is much higher now that the liabilities have fallen by 60%, the equity has risen 30%, and the valuation is a third of what it was.Are you absolutely sure?!
wigwammer
21/2/2016
17:12
CT - yes I hold a small portfolio position which is now 30% smaller than when I started! The question is whether to add more. I'm open minded about it. You suggest large parts of the business have "gone for good". I agree with you. They agree with you. The game over the last 12-18 months has been precisely to downsize the business - liabilities have fallen from £198m at end 2014 to £130m in the last accounts, mainly driven by working capital reduction (this is predominantly a wc driven business). Reading the latest report they evidently believe this has further to go. So yes - the operating business is downsizing but so are the liabilities. To emphasise - it is very difficult for a business with zero liabilities (or approaching zero liabilities) to disappear. In theory what will be left are the non current/property assets, and a pile of cash - totalling around £130m. Yes some of the assets like tower may be written down, some may be written up - like the property. But you have to do some serious impairment to get that £130m down to the current £60m valuation. Re tower - they believe they can shorten the mining plans to reduce the impairment. Further details in the report. Nor do I think they have to liquidate the whole business in this way. They clearly believe there are elements that have value as a going concern - hence the acquisitions to bolster what they have. I'm not keen on the acquisition they made because I can see little history of how it works across a cycle - but they have evidently taken care to structure the deal in a way that protects them from the less visible elements.So - am I buying £1+ of assets for 50p? Quite possibly. The business is seeing hard times which adds to the risk and uncertainty, but the reduction in liabilities substantially ameliorates the risk. My guess is the market is currently fixated on the business risk - and ignoring the balance sheet derisking.
wigwammer
20/2/2016
17:57
So as I thought its Bad news all round.

Going forward we may NOT dig any coal next year. We will be selling off the coke stocks for cash that will almost all go in write downs.
World coal prices are very low and oil is at a 4 year low.

Cannot see HSP making much next year if at all.

Sub 400p at the very least.

Just don't fancy it until its turned a corner.

Tiger

THIS POST FROM DECEMBER 2014

I have been negative for over 15 months.
Yes I was a holder but when I sold having looked forward I was accused of being a shorter.
You make some good points but

castleford tiger
20/2/2016
17:23
CT - on the basis of the last 3-6 months you have called the stock correctly. Well done. But given the share is trading near all time lows, it is stretching the truth to state you have got this spot on. Like anyone who has put money here at some stage or other - I strongly suspect you have lost money here. The only difference is the extent of the loss - given I've caught the last £1 fall on the way down from £10, I suspect i'm among the smaller losers. Not saying this to attack - but I'm quite used to losing 30-50% on a trade only to find I average down and make a decent profit. Being wrong over a few months doesn't bother me at all. I suggest your terminology is dramatic, because whereas it chimes with the headlines one might read in the likes of the DM - it doesn't quite ring true reading the financials. The company has maintained its equity ratio, is profitable, is generating cash from a substantial wc position, is paying a div etc.. It's not exactly deaths door stuff. Yes the co has deteriorated from a position of high profitability to a position of limited or zero profitability, but that's not quite the same as suggesting it will disappear. Given the equity base is currently double the market value, it only has to sustain itself to have a decent chance of realising value from those assets.The tower assets may be written down, but reading the report it appears they have opportunities to mitigate the risk. Yes they may sell inventory below cost, but the point is the cost is already sunk ie what they sell from here loses profit but realises cash. Nor do I don't blame management for buying back shares near multi year lows - waste of time. Few punters saw this collapse coming and even under current conditions the balance sheet remains viable. Along with you and others I don't like the acquisition. That bothers me. Limited visibility on the history of the assets. That and tower are the biggies. But I'm hardly breaking new ground pointing to these problems. Far more mileage pointing to the evident strengths, given consensus appear oblivious to them.
wigwammer
20/2/2016
13:33
great post thanks
castleford tiger
20/2/2016
13:18
Copy of a post I made elsewhere recently:

I found your take on Hargreaves, a company that has been on my personal “bargepole list” for probably the last four years, interesting Paul.

The main justification for its “bargepoleR21; status in my view is that I see no future for coal. Everyone knows that coal burning produces more global warming emmissions than other fossil fuels, as well as other pollutants, but its excavation and processing also releases methane which is twenty five times more damaging in this respect than carbon dioxide, a fact which you rarely see mentioned by enthusiasts of Carbon Capture projects. Nearly twenty years ago I talked to the coal handling managers of every coal fired power station in the UK about stockpile handling, and almost to a man they predicted closure of their coal fired power stations before, or around, now. Haven’t read Hargreaves recent reports, but I expect that they have a large element of coal stockpile value which may not be realiseable. But the cost of coalsite reinstatement ie. a serious liability, which was originally anticipated to be recovered in advance through profitable coal production which has now been cancelled, will still be required if the company is to survive. So I’m far from convinced that the wind down of working capital would produce a large benefit.

Also, recently HSL bought C A Blackwell, which didn’t impress me at all, as I’ve dealt with both in the past and fail to see any synergies, or much chance of the staff of the two companies integrating painlessly. It reminded me of one or two companies I’ve known in the past desperately trying to change the nature of their business, unsuccessfully.

And finally, I noticed the bit in your report about the land holdings. I’m sceptical about their potential, just as I was perhaps ten years ago when shareholders in UKCoal were enthusing about the huge (half a billion £ IIRC) potential from their vast landbank. HSP own, IIRC, loads of opencast coal sites, many of which closed perhaps fifteen to twenty years ago, which probably represents most of their landholdings. The ones I particularly remember are Dalquandy, which was the Crouch operated biggest opencast mine in Scotland, Blindwells, a Fairclough Parkinson site near Edinburgh, and Westfield which was originally a Costain site and the deepest opencast in Europe I believe. On opencast sites there are usually quite large areas reserved for offices, overburden heaps, soils heaps, coal handling etc. – perhaps as much as 30% of the overall site area. This portion of the land is clearly ideal for any type of development. But the remaining 70% or more has huge variations in the depth of backfill it contains as well as the type of backfill, method of replacement, settlement time since it was reinstated (not forgetting that many of these coal sites ran for twenty years or more), and whether or not any attempt was made to compact the backfill as it was placed ( not usual) which will have a huge bearing on the value of the land to a developer. So, have HSP actually sold any of that sort of land to developers, or are they just getting planning permissions etc. and ”hoping”.
Regards.
PS. Many of the coal fired stations where I talked to the coal handling managers have indeed closed as they predicted, and a few more are now winding down.

muckshifter
20/2/2016
11:39
Wigwammer in December you said in reply to my question.

Do you see value here Wigwammer?"

Current market cap £85m. NOW 60.00 so a 30% fall.

Net liquid assets £88m.
Significant land assets.
Significant operating assets.
A business with half a billion+ sales.
Little debt.

So yes, I think there may well be value here.

Now you pick me up on

I think risk reward is too much risk as we don't know what will be left.

I AM expressing my opinion and to be fair I have been spot on.
The shares are 190p.
If you want me to pick holes in your latest post I can for example

70%+ of the balance sheet is current assets, the reported tangible equity has hardly budged over a year, and the equity ratio has risen.

Well what about TOWER? that we now find out about a cross party loan of 20 odd million that lets be frank will not be paid. They probably need more cash to keep going.
Producing coal that you cannot sell ,at a price below cost will not pay off a loan.
The BOD were buying their own shares and wasting millions. The same BOD that you want to believe now?
Turnover by the way means nothing. 1/2 billion to make what? ZIP?
there may well be no or not enough market left for coal by 2018 to make the underlying business viable.

The one gem of course is land and its potential. I feel in the scramble for cash that's coming that may be sold at a fire sale.
If not and the business can stabilise and we can see a business at the end of this then yes there may be an investment case.
Which brings me to Risk/reward.
You need big rewards here to justify the risk. In my opinion.

Tiger

castleford tiger
19/2/2016
20:29
"I think risk reward is too much risk as we don't know what will be left."Bit dramatic. 70%+ of the balance sheet is current assets, the reported tangible equity has hardly budged over a year, and the equity ratio has risen. For all the headlines - they look robust. Have to disagree with the poster who suggested their predicament is down to poor management - the balance sheet resilience is testament to the fact they moved quickly in a bad market.
wigwammer
19/2/2016
08:29
I think Beeks that's a good policy. Miss 100p is nothing if it looks like it will re rate.
I think risk reward is too much risk as we don't know what will be left.
They are trying to unload a site producing smokeless to CPL. Retail season has been dreadful.
Need to see just what is left in the UK coal market come late summer 2016

tiger

castleford tiger
18/2/2016
23:10
I don't see anything on any chart which would compel me to buy at any price currently. The 5 year looks horrid!

If it survives (and that is an if at the moment) I would want confirmation higher up rather than try to bottom fish.

beeks of arabia
16/2/2016
15:27
Alot of the damage here is self inflicted by poor management decisions.Its like blasting your foot with a shotgun -deciding its not painful enough so blasting your other foot.The government has simply abandoned the carbon world. Never come across a company where everything that could go wrong has gone wrong -mostly at the same time.
meijiman
16/2/2016
12:32
The neckline of the long term H&S can be placed in various different positions, each of which result in different targets. Lowest is 120.
bamboo2
16/2/2016
11:34
Well guys where now?

Market getting worse and a possible 20 plus million loan write off at Tower.
More customers closing and will have 300,000 tonnes of coal on Scottish soil by y/e.
That will hurt cash flow.
Transport division down on loss of Rock salt ( warm winter ), waste losses and Bio loss.
Nothing at all is going right for them.

Full year will now be a certain loss after exc items.
Surprised they paid any dividend. However they wasted all that money on share backs so a small div is nothing.
lets hope this new division pays off.
Land looks a great asset if they had no other debts etc.
Might attract a bidder ( Ex uk coal land company).


I see 150p as a new target.

Tiger

castleford tiger
Chat Pages: Latest  72  71  70  69  68  67  66  65  64  63  62  61  Older

Your Recent History

Delayed Upgrade Clock