Hargreaves Services Plc

8.00 (2.07%)
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Hargreaves Services Plc LSE:HSP London Ordinary Share GB00B0MTC970 ORD 10P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  8.00 2.07% 394.00 241,958 16:35:12
Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price
378.00 394.00 394.00 394.00 394.00
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Sanitary Services, Nec 177.91 37.04 113.90 3.40 128.16
Last Trade Time Trade Type Trade Size Trade Price Currency
16:35:12 O 47,500 390.00 GBX

Hargreaves Services (HSP) Latest News

Hargreaves Services (HSP) Discussions and Chat

Hargreaves Services Forums and Chat

Date Time Title Posts
28/5/202316:19Hargreaves Services plc3,056

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Hargreaves Services (HSP) Most Recent Trades

Trade Time Trade Price Trade Size Trade Value Trade Type
2023-05-31 16:15:00390.0047,500185,250.00O
2023-05-31 16:15:00390.0080,000312,000.00O
2023-05-31 15:43:55390.0080,000312,000.00O
2023-05-31 15:35:12394.00253996.82UT
2023-05-31 15:00:35380.557122,709.52O

Hargreaves Services (HSP) Top Chat Posts

Top Posts
Posted at 09/5/2023 09:54 by castleford tiger
With EPS current year consensus 72p and 63p next year i fail to see the point in selling?

The p/e ratio at 400p is under 7.
The dividend yield is just over 5%
NAV per share is 603p some 50% higher than current price.
Net cash was 18m but might be 25m plus when we see year end figures.

Current slowdown in land sales will reverse in 24/25 and price of land will start to rise again.

This looks rock solid at these valuations.


Posted at 28/1/2023 13:14 by muckshifter
A bit of an explanation of the Blackwell situation that I posted elsewhere which might be of interest to some here:

What Hargreaves Services (LON:HSP) have done with Blackwells, after a lot of pain over several years which I'm sure that they didn't anticipate when buying them, looks about right to me, as someone who knew Blackwells for many years. Blackwells used to act as a subcontractor to the big contractors on motorways etc and as a main contractor to local authorities on pure muckshift jobs such as regrading old colliery waste mountains. But the ethos of the organisation was originally formed when Chris Blackwell took on the main claims QS from I think it was Laing after the original M1 contract. They became infamous for their claims culture and ability to take advantage of clients with poor understanding of the various "Methods of Measurement" applied to contracts, and believe me there are many such clients.

Eventually they found many local authority clients preferred to exclude them from tender processes and main contractors, apart from those such as BB who were just as contractual as Blackwell, preferred other subbies. Gradually they then moved into becoming a main contractor on jobs which were much more than muckshift, which was their downfall, imo, despite having good claims people. Enter HSP, buying a company with a huge "work in progress" book, ie lots of outstanding claims which Blackwell had confidently put into their books, and then came the pain.

But what HSP have done is stop all the "main contracting" rubbish and restrict Blackwell to subbie roles in the major civils contracts, which are all awarded on ideal forms of contract for Blackwell. These contracts are based on one of the Civil Engineering forms of contract, which although their are about half a dozen varieties, are more than fair to the contractor and usually guarantee cost plus for most of the contract period. This usually leaves the risk of breaching a target cost late in the project, after which things become painful for the contractor, but along the way the Blackwell contractual expertise, assuming they have saved most of it, allows them to identify contract changes that enable them to negotiate increases in the target figure. So I personally would expect them to never have a problem in that respect. In fact that form of contract can end up with a bonus at the end if you can keep raising the target and end up below it on completion. So well done HSP for steering Blackwell into the correct niche, now all they need is continuity of major projects.

Posted at 07/12/2022 18:48 by smithie6
..there wasn't any debate with C.Mills about the value of the different parts imo, just P.Hill saying 'break up value over £6' & that the person from Downing fund was also a fan of HSP.

I'm against selling the German JV. I would rather it just keeps clocking up the profits each year ! :-)
(& in time moving to passing 86% of that PAT up to HSP. :-))) & paying back the loans from HSP :-) ; HSP passing more of that excess cash back to shareholders :-) )

The dirs of the German JV have imo done a fantastic job.
be illogical to cut them adrift phps
(maybe instead invite them to help run the UK Govt !!)
(the recycling part was added for 1€ out of administration if I remember correctly but is now turned around & profitable.
The carbon crushing facility was created & was at break-even turnover (100k tonnes/yr) when I last looked/heard, hopefully that can start getting higher tonnage throughput & hence start producing a return on the investment. Big tonnage, takes time to grow. (400k tonnes/yr capacity !, big stuff).

The text from the bod about the JV over the past years has gone from
- almost silence
- some info but 'we will probably sell it'
- more info & 'it is doing very well, & more changes/improvements are underway so 'we will keep it'

- 'improvements have made the JV more efficient & profitable'

....at present there is no intention to sell it imo (in any case one of the first/next steps will imo be for HSP to recoup the money lent to the JV).

although HSP perhaps gets a good % return on the money lent (which should/might have gone up with the recent increase in % rates)

'if' Harwood ever were to push for selling the JV they would surely want phps 3 years of fairly stable turnover & profit & for the return from investments like the carbon crusher to be very visible in the results.
imo we are not in that position/situation

the selling price for the JV would also be higher imo when the interest rate is lower (since any buyer might need some loans to part fund the acquisition)....&; perhaps a 24 month wait (or longer ?) for interest rates to reduce


btw the cash generation from the JV before depreciation & before tax is quite eyewatering !

Posted at 25/10/2022 16:05 by smithie6
HSP share price moves around a lot, every day

why is that ?
Is it traded on SETS & there no MM to give a bit of damping/stability ?

Posted at 17/10/2022 11:23 by smithie6
ah ha !

good info/digging.

A surprise to me that HSP still gets paid the £1 million even if the mining co. puts the mine on hold for X months while they reassess how to operate, since the mining co. won't be making any profit. (their problem !, gives them a strong incentive to get on with it I guess !)

(it is not clear to me whether HSP has to do any work at the site to get this £1 million.
Do you know ?

While I understand that any work at the mining site that HSP has the skills to do has to go to HSP. And I think that HSP probably has some machines/JCBs etc on the mining site.

Posted at 14/10/2022 08:13 by smithie6
One of my points was that NAV is not always a good way to value property related shares & I gave some examples.

Lse:dci for example currently has a NAV around 12p, if my memory is correct, & a share price of 3-4p.

Ignoring the last reported NAV, the real value of the co. is clearly much lower after pig iron has halved in price & the housing sector has slowed according to mortgage lenders (& as shown by the charts for shares of housing builders).

What is a fair correct share price ?
good question.

Posted at 13/10/2022 12:14 by smithie6
You have completely missed/omitted the main points of my recent posts, which are 100% correct.

you are completely deluding yourself if you think that the HSP share price has fallen because of general -ve mkt sentiment.

The share price is down because the mkt has seen that the mkt price for pig iron has halved (a big part of the HSP profit) & that land prices have dropped & might not now be sellable at all for X years.
If true then what is value of something that you cannot sell ?!!

(see my post about builders' production rate & stopping buying of more plots if they already have X years of plots in their land bank) (if a builders' production rate halves then his land bank will last for double the time, so he has no need buy more plots)

Posted at 30/1/2022 10:58 by smithie6
"The bank covenants over there are extremely complex involving HRMS and the other parts of the JV such as DK"

I mostly agree with you, & HSP has written that profit release depends on complying with loan covenants/rules. The rules will not be so complicated when viewed by the FD of the JV or the FD of HSP. ;-).

But !
At the end of May '22, the JV will have £20-25 million (minus ~£4 million paid to HSP last year after the year end) more in their bank account. so £16-21 million.
In my opinion that must surely allow more cash to be transferred to HSP, whether it is called repayment of HSP loans or payout of distributable profits; subject of course to complying with the bank loan covenants.

(Perhaps one option might be to pay down the bank loan by £10, the loan risk reduces & the EBITDA cover for the loan changes & suddenly a wadge of the retained profits can be released. Or pay down the bank loan by ~21.1million€ & then remove £30million of retained profits, & still comply with the loan rules since ALL of the 21.1 million € bank loan is paid off !!. I guess we don't know since we have low visibility of the loan/debt situation within the JV )

(Yes, a lot of working capital is needed (104 million€) but that is covered/secured imo by the sale contracts for those materials with known payment dates, from big clients; not secured by the bank loan of 21.1 million€.

We will see, but my general argument/point is fairly clear I think. And of course we have to wait until the annual results (to end of May '22) are known or an update for the year & see if the co. makes some statement along these general lines. But the company is already being very bullish, & it was in writing in July '21 but the market took no long term notice ! & the share price fell over time from 550p to 400p.

( noting that in July 2021 the co. seemed to say the results for the JV for year to May '22 were already in the bag; biggest profit contributor of all of HSP)


Exposure of HSP to the JV is £ 66.1 million including loans & HSP part of retained profits etc. This includes £15 million temporary loan to help with working capital, made in H1 due to strong trading & to be repaid in H2. (This might be partly to provide a deposit for forward selling 40% of annual production of pig iron & zinc). Now that the JV is likely/expected to produce ~>=£20 million PAT after £13 million last financial year it is surely time for big chunks of money to be paid each year from the JV to HSP, either calling it payment of profit or repayment of lent money. HSP took a risk invested in the JV & lent it a lot of money, the JV has been a great success & now it is time to see big amounts of cash come to HSP, imo. (86% of £20 million profit = £17.2 million).

Posted at 30/1/2022 09:35 by smithie6
Anyone looked recently at the topic of cash/loan repayment from the JV up to HSP over the next 0-3 years ?

(Not an easy subject perhaps)

imo the 2 big share price drivers for 0-3 yrs are
1) revelation of markedly higher annual profit from the JV & that co. seems confident it will continue, & that not selling the JV in short term, so the profit keeps benefitting HSP (& hence impacting the share price via EPS & P/E rather than via a 1 off cash lump from a quick/'soon' sale at unknown date & price). (this is the driver for price rise so far imo)
(I bought back in at ~410p just for the future sale of the JV, & thinking it might take 1-2 years, how quickly things change)

2) cash payments to HSP of many millions of pounds from the JV, year on year !!.

(imo the stock market has ignored this, so far, in re-valuing HSP shares)

When bank loan rules allow the JV will be paying back to HSP the existing loans (from HSP) & then 86% of cash from profit. The JV will surely make >£20 million PAT this year. 86% = £17.1 million !. Just 3 years at £17.1 million
= £51 million,
1/3rd of the cap. value of HSP !. (~£1.6/share !)

Each to their own view but I think the share is still way underpriced.

And return of loans, is it ~£30 million ?
(~£1/share. Be a nice special payout !
£1 +£1.6 = £2.6 !!. 50% of current share price !)

Maybe a train convoy can be rinsed down after doing a pig iron delivery & filled up with £50 notes & sent to the UK ! :-)

If anyone shows that my numbers are complete rubbish, I'll happily delete/modify this post. But fairly sure it is correct.

Posted at 29/1/2022 11:26 by smithie6
The following is quite/very good imo, even though written in the past.

By Simon Thompson
Who has recommended HSP shares as a buy in the past.

And will surely give it coverage again, 'what I wrote might happen, is happening. More to come'

Free access.....perhaps just for 1 access. (So don't close & then try to re-open)


Somehow I managed to download an article written by Simon that is a pdf, I downloaded completely for free, (via a link at IC website I think) that is the best one to read even though it is officially out of date.


If you google search that on the web hopefully it can be downloaded free. Simon cleverly predicted in '20/'21 what could happen at HSP with the JV, & it is happening. Kudos to Simon T. (Posters on here probably/surely predicted the good possibilities as well; especially after the H2 results from the JV). But the price chart shows that the market took no notice, with the price falling back to 400p, nuts.

The Daily Mail also tipped HSP on 22nd January.



There is some useful or key info in the ST pdf file analysis (& it is a long analysis, a must read for any HSP fans imo) which is why I think this is an excellent share for the next 3-5 years relative to the current price (& after that, look again & at the price then). The increasing return to HSP of cash/loans from the JV, & one assumes the greater payout to HSP of 80% of the profit from the JV.
Also interesting to read the info/deals that HSP did for the tungsten mine in Devon. (They bought various assets & then sold them to make a good profit, & kept some assets & Tungsten West are now giving HSP £1m/year cash. Very sharp.
& with the success of the JV (with HSP funding/backing) the HSP dirs. look to be switched on deal makers imo. While yes in the past they have had notable write offs of receivables such as due to British Steel going bust.
The co. seems to be very successfully moving on.

Hargreaves Services share price data is direct from the London Stock Exchange
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