Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[pwhite73] 12/12/2024 15:22

zydecoco - "I actually pointed out that EBITDA alone is a rubbish measure of a company, as it could have a tiny cost basis and tiny sales and be EBITDA positive."

EBITDA is the best measurement for the performance of a company.

If all costs for running the company is £1.00 and the EBITDA is £1.50p it means the company can survive forever on 50p profit because all costs are being met. The costs include salaries, interest on loans, rents, repairs, new equipment etc.

If the costs for running the company is £100,000,000 and EBITDA is £100,000,050 it is still the same. If a company is in positive EBITDA it can survive. If it is negative EBITDA it will eventually die when it runs out of other people's money.

[fuji99] 12/12/2024 14:48

PW: "The reality is there is no requirement for them to start repaying the loan until such times as they are making serious amounts of money.."

Apparently raising money every 3 months is synonymous to: "making serious amounts of money."

This is an amazing statement for someone who doesn't know yet the true history of this empty shell !

[squire007] 12/12/2024 14:40

Exclusive edition only so you can fekk off TW :-)) :-)) ....

[bbmsionlypostafter mk2] 12/12/2024 14:36

Anyone know if the Roger who drew lifeless cartoons extolling the managerial & salesmanish prowess of Neill Ricketts while berating TW is doing a 2025 VRS Calendar?

Need a gift for someone I don't like v. much.

[zydecoco] 12/12/2024 14:06

PW, Simply put, what scale of Revenue and by when would you see as success for VRS?

[zydecoco] 12/12/2024 14:05

PW, I did not say the other factors (Revenue and Scale of Revenue had anything to do with EBITDA) .I actually pointed out that EVITDA alone is a rubbish measure of a company, as it could have a tiny cost basis and tiny sales and be EBITDA positive.

[fuji99] 12/12/2024 14:01

Talking about EBITDA, this or that, based on something that doesn't exist is one of the early symptom of total madness.

[festario] 12/12/2024 13:13

A new ALL TIME LOW. Love it.

[pwhite73] 12/12/2024 12:36

zydecoco - "Just EBITDA positive by H2 2025 is not a good enough answer. that could be achieved by cutting costs and selling almost nothing."

No its not. EBITDA positive means the company is making a profit just on its operations alone. Cutting costs, grant money, loan money, equity issues money are not included in a positive EBITDA. These other actions may contribute to the overall financial health of the company but have nothing to do with EBITDA.

[smokeyjohnson] 12/12/2024 12:25

Even if you did want to have a punt that the company might drag itself out of its current position, this placing probably isn't the time as they can only raise something like £140k maximum - minus expenses which will last them a whole month. Then they'll need to rip the confetti up into even tinier pieces. We'll run out of decimal places.

What is the maximum number of shares that a company can issue before computer says no? Apparently there isn't one. So why stop!?

[zydecoco] 12/12/2024 12:18

PW, You keep saying you want X (eg concrete commercials) and when X doesn't materialise you say aaah but there's always Y and that's Ok, and adding various excuses about an earlier market with no regulations. You're moving goalposts more than the Scotland crowd of 1977.What is satisfactory measurable progress by when? is the question you need to answer.And in terms of Revenue. - 1. How much by when? And also 2. What profit levels by when? Just EBITDA positive by H2 2025 is not a good enough answer. that could be achieved by cutting costs and selling almost nothing. Eg having a firesale, which is not far off their actions to date.

[bbmsionlypostafter mk2] 12/12/2024 11:56

Just to be clear PW, are you still guiding us on all matters VRS?

TIA

[pwhite73] 12/12/2024 11:46

1manchild - "did you get what you were looking for"

No I did not get all of what I was looking for. However I am satisfied that the company was open and honest about where they stood with the commercial side of graphene and this is reflected in every other graphene company large or small trying to crack the market. I reiterate graphene companies are edging closer as eventually major corporations will bite. Nobody wants to be left behind. For example using silicon chips when competitors have moved onto faster and lower powered graphene chips.

[pwhite73] 12/12/2024 11:41

1mamchild - "other businesses in the same space are doing much better than us and this is fact"

No it is not. Some of them have higher profiles and bigger budgets to try and crack the commercial graphene market but they are in the same boat as VRS. In fact VRS is ahead of most.

Take the first one Paragraf. Results at Companies House filed 19/09/2024 for the year ending 31 December 2023 shows revenues of just £930k and losses of £17 million.



For year ending 30 September 2023 VRS had revenues of £5.5 million and losses of £14 million.

[1manchild] 12/12/2024 11:29

pwhite - this is what you said the other day on this very board -

'What I'm looking for is concrete news on commercial agreements. A proper update on Total Carbide (why was the CEO at a Solent meeting with them the other day if they're due to be sold?). What's happening with the millstone around their neck, the £5 million Innovate Loan.

No point in the CFO turning up just to respond to every question with - "we can't give out that commercial news yet".'

did you get what you were looking for or is a case of - as the great bono himself once sang 'i still havent found what im looking for'?

[1manchild] 12/12/2024 11:18

pwhite - i have listened to it. i get it and i keep telling you i get the graphene situation.

i also understand that vrs is an advanced materials company and so it should diversify and get some bread and butter revenue. you would think that david stone would have advised this within a plethora of turn around strategies at his disposal

funny thing is the bbc link also talks about opportunities in china and the middle east - both of which vrs chased and failed on. other businesses in the same space are doing much better than us and this is fact. look at it - everything from the products through to the share price and then the management. check out the ceo of paragraf - nanoxplore - levidian - graphene innovations etc. and you will see a world of difference and diverse ideas.

i did think the 3d concrete printing - non-graphene at the moment - might be a saving grace but i'm not so convinced after that poor performance the other night.

an absolute shambles and i cannot see any further investment in this team and chris is cloud cuckoo land thinking innovate are going to be kind even if there is a restructure just to ensure payment purposes

[festario] 12/12/2024 10:50

Barkan, Lol.

[pwhite73] 12/12/2024 10:47

1manchild - "and i would even say it was worse than anything ricketts has ever delivered"

I couldn't agree more because you just can't compete with a contract between Versarien and China Railways.

Listen to the BBC link posted by laginaneil, it will educate you as to why there is no real commercial traction as yet although everybody is racing towards it. Terrance Barkan from The Graphene Council is also on it.

[1retirement] 12/12/2024 10:45

But but but, dilution doesn't matter as long as the share price is going up. Gospel according to P White.

[squire007] 12/12/2024 10:34

Fest lol he in Wales :-)) secretly luvs it

[1manchild] 12/12/2024 10:33

As a vrs shareholder i am desperate to come on here and paint a positive picture. i want to proved wrong on the management too as i want to see good news and a management team buzzing with genuine optimism.

but - and i apologise to senden - bluemango- and pwhite now - that investors webinar the other night had about as much spark as andy murray with the flu on a damp and foggy february. it was shocking! this is what i heard -

- 2 very early discussions on total carbide so no turn around there for who knows how long
- mck will be given as long as they want to pay the debt as the relationship is strategic
- either no one has yet spoken to innovate on the loan or they have and it isnt good news because the response chris gave saying the website states they will help struggling companies was unbelievable
- the construction stuff is consultancy based and the chinatown job is pending
- we are still talking about pipelines
- umbro is dead and we have no news on go to gym or flux sales or projections
- the distribution deal has no projections
- everything in korea is currently a project
- gnanomat stuff is still project based and is all about grant funding - andf the gnanocaps stuff wont be commercialised anytime soon

Need i go on?

The host - tim from IFC - couldnt finish the event quick enough and dealt with the easy questions which still werent answered by the ceo convincingly.

if you couldnt see that this management team lacks confidence and is pathetic and i mean pathetic from that effort we have just seen then you have issues. it was 4 damp and boring squids skirting around the issues. there werent any announcements or big collaborations. it was the same old dross and i would even say it was worse than anything ricketts has ever delivered and that is saying something as at least his bs had some enthusiasm.

there is no way anyone is going to invest in vrs - no chance what so ever - and we desperately need change at the top. the current collaborations are either old which havent progressed or are just bit part experiments.

all i want for christmas is a new management. i have given this lot long enough. is it too much to ask?

[pwhite73] 12/12/2024 10:31

laginaneil - An excellent link. Highlights everything that I've been saying about fragmentation and the lack of national and internationally agreed regulations and standards. Thankfully Versarien are at the heart of this. CVD is also mentioned.

[kemche] 12/12/2024 10:22

bluemango - 29 Jul 2024 - 13:39:35 - 152922 of 153992 VRS The world lead in real Graphene (Nanene) - VRS
Yes, can read the RNS.

Richard and Christine Jones, acquired more shares on 25th bringing their combined holding to 164,449,879 shares = 7.05%.


They then increase their holding to 261,830,814 shares for a total holding of 7.04%.


Don't you just love dilution?

I soon expect them to hold 600,000,000 shares for a total holding of 3.04%


Then 1,200,000,000 for a 1.3% holding.


And that is what you call professional investing right there.


Are Richard and Christine friends with the Rogers by any chance?

[zydecoco] 12/12/2024 10:17

Anyone on here admitting to having the surname Jones?