Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[schmally] 11/11/2019 19:03

Well They do have some IP protection, plus despite thousands of companies purporting to be Graphene producers the Chinese only want to work with VRS and nobody else has put themselves forward for accreditation. I wonder why? The recent composites presentation posted on here clearly detailed the value of accreditation and the complexity of getting accredited. Even if they had no protection, it seems that they have sufficient protection given that no other companies can seemingly replicate what they do to the same standard, so that alone puts them in prime position to exploit a multi billion pound market. No doubt you will dispute the potential market size, but the direction of travel is clear.

[loglorry1] 11/11/2019 18:51

@schmally I'd agree if VRS had unique protected IP just like the company you mention probably has. No evidence of that though is there?

[schmally] 11/11/2019 18:47

Loggy, you listed a very good list of AIM dross companies. No doubt you had exposure to some, but thankfully I didn’t. In fact VRS is one of my very rare excursions onto AIM purely because of those types of examples and dodgy characters such as yourself trying to manipulate share prices.

[grabster] 11/11/2019 18:45

Thanks Shavian.
For those unfamiliar with who he is and who he knows - a photo from a year ago:


Links go back at least two years earlier than that, as some here have pointed out before.

[schmally] 11/11/2019 18:42

Loggy, there you go again. Blatantly lying for the umpteenth time today.

What I actually said was I’m a director of a SIPP company that forms part of a multi billion pound EB and Insurance Broking company. I never once said anything about SIPPS worth billions, although the FUM within our SIPP/SSAS portfolios are approx £3 billion

You see. It’s your continuous deliberate lies and misquoting that has eroded your influence and credibility. It’s your lack of attention to detail that highlight your sloppiness and laziness to gather facts that lets you down.

Why do you have to lie all the time. Is it because you can’t counter the truth and debate honestly with integrity.

[ny boy] 11/11/2019 18:37

This stock desperately needs good news, with global markets printing new highs, it’s certainly performed well below par, Wake up Neill, give investors something to be excited about ffs!

[schmally] 11/11/2019 18:32

Loggy, once again you have made a baseless assumption. When have I ever said the only reason VRS have not made ‘significant sales’ is because they are just ‘taking their time’. Never, because that would be stupid. As stupid as suggesting a company has no value without sales. It would be as stupid as saying hi tech companies with valuable IP and massive potential can’t have any meaningful market cap. Oh hang on, that’s your only argument isn’t it. If that was the case most promising tech, pharma and mining stocks would also never dictate any meaningful market cap.

What is patently clear, especially to those that have done their research and listened to presentations by experts on the subject, is that collaborations and product development using Graphene require very specific skills and extensive testing, which can be very time consuming, especially if clients extend the terms of any initial projects to explore new applications. A client would be stupid not to explore the varying levels of benefits depending on even the tiniest variation of loading % and variances to morphology.

China is a different matter altogether. There is no doubt Neill could have agreed an early deal and if he had been that way inclined he could have cashed out with a massive profit. However, unlike most AIM CEOs with large shareholding’s he wasn’t blinded by the £ signs and he chose to take his time, seek HMG assistance and clearly displayed integrity to ensure max future shareholder value. Discussions have clearly snowballed since his first China visit. That in itself (demonstration of his integrity and long term commitment) persuaded me to increase my shareholding significantly.

This is complex disruptive science and as I mentioned before, VRS are not in the same perilous state as other Graphene producers. They have plenty of cash and therefore don’t have to rush into poor contracts or take unnecessary risks to pay short term bills and keep the taxman at bay. They are meticulous and their balance of risk/reward is to be admired.

What’s also clear is that major deals are also often dependent on other factors outside of VRS control, such as Aecom infrastructure projects.

If VRS were listed in the US it would be trading at a massive premium to the current share price. GW Pharma are a prime example of why I believe that statement to be accurate. They relisted on Nasdaq after treading water for years on Aim. They’ve taken 15 years to get their drugs to market and up until last year revenues were between $8-12 million for the previous 3 years with losses of over $150 million a year. And yet with a far smaller market for their product than VRS they demand a market cap of...wait for it.....$3.4 BILLION. It was 4.5 billion last year.

Ask yourself why GW Pharma have that market cap and then challenge your thinking about whether VRS with it’s massive potential is over valued. Perhaps you should short GW Pharma instead🤔

[bbmsionlypostafter] 11/11/2019 18:11

Bet against the great Northern Bear Waseem Shakoor at your peril. He is invariably right and his ability to spot frauds and overpromotes is uncanny...........

Versarien (not a zero but worth less than £15 million, so more than 90% overvalued)

[johnveals] 11/11/2019 18:08

Ah well, better things to do...

[johnveals] 11/11/2019 18:07

It's just like when you have been standing at a bus stop for ages...

[dreamtwister] 11/11/2019 17:58

has any one seen this 3t machine or is it still a blue print ?

[loglorry1] 11/11/2019 17:57

I know but it's comedy gold to read the likes of

"I'm a director of a company which manages SIPPS worth billions and I know that this time it is not a CTAG, FRR, Quindell, APFO, Pursuit Dynamics, Afren, Steinfhoff, Debenems, Thomas Cook, UKOG, BIDS, etc. etc."

The truth is that all these companies were either overvalued companies which crashed back to earth or outright frauds.

Obviously we can't say VRS is in the same category but it sure shares a lot of similarities. It's doing pretty poorly in the recent frothy market. I can't imagine what will happen if the froth is ever blow away.

[shavian] 11/11/2019 17:54

Our new man in Shanghai?

[johnveals] 11/11/2019 17:50

Oh, that is FUD as in fear, uncertainty and doubt, not the Scottish fud.

[loglorry1] 11/11/2019 17:29

That's easy enough. VRS market cap is £165m undiluted. I guess we'd expect to price it generously on say 3 x Sales if sales were growing rapidly. So where are the £55m of sales? You can discount legacy loss making stuff if you want but it doesn't make a lot of difference.

Sales of graphene were more like £40K as far as I can see.

[superg1] 11/11/2019 17:24

EG

Update (8/13): President Trump has delayed the additional 10% duty on certain types of footwear until December 15th, but will impose tariffs for other types of footwear on September 1st. FDRA’s President and CEO Matt Priest issued the following statement:

“The announcement today that the Trump Administration will be delaying the additional 10% tariff on some footwear until December 1st is an acknowledgement that tariffs are indeed paid by Americans. It is no coincidence that the Administration is allowing certain shoes to come in without raising taxes in hopes that prices do not rise at retail during the holidays. Our industry’s loud unified voice left a clear impression that shoe tariffs are already extremely high, upwards of 67.5%, and any further tariffs would directly raise costs on consumers and cost footwear jobs. While we are pleased with the decision to delay new tariffs on certain shoes, we are not satisfied. We will continue to fight for any exclusions on new tariffs and we will fight to delay new tariffs on shoes until the entire tariff threat is lifted off the backs of American families.”

[superg1] 11/11/2019 17:23

Vivo
On the relocation part I took that to mean (with some research) issues like the China/US tariffs which impact margins.

A case of making space elsewhere to bypass such things.

[johnveals] 11/11/2019 17:21

Define 'material sales' and 'virtually none'.

On second thoughts don't bother, it's just more FUD.

[loglorry1] 11/11/2019 17:18

OK I'll bite. Let's get back to basics. Just so we are clear is your entire thesis as to the lack of any material sales of VRS Graphene down to them taking their time?


Why in such a red hot sector would a company with apparently the best graphene in the world sell virtually none of it despite countless collaboration announcements spanning years?

[johnveals] 11/11/2019 17:18

I think schmally has just disproven the old saying 'never wrestle with a pig, you get dirty and the pig likes it'.

[schmally] 11/11/2019 17:09

Wrong again Loggy, if anything I'm self depreciating and I've made plenty of investment mistakes in the past, with valuable lessons learned. Some of the intelligent and successful VRS investors I know, put me to shame with the breadth of their experience and knowledge. I do however believe that over 30 years in financial services and investing have helped me make informed decisions and have given me sufficient confidence to debate on VRS and other investments. You however, seem to believe that only your opinion matters and that everyone else is an idiot, so if anyone's guilty of having a high opinion of themselves, it's you. I'm glad you can't be bothered debating with me anymore. Job done!

[ny boy] 11/11/2019 17:04

100p, is the new 130p
collaborate - exterminate - collaborate - exterminate