Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[mikebrenner] 11/11/2019 12:31

Thanks Mryl - the core problem which i'm sure you are learning but i repeat for others sake is that you shouldn't "listen" to superg1 and I (or anyone!), you should do your own research, validate your own view and see where others research / opinions fits, but ultimately own your investment decisions as its your money.

FYI as i have done more research and seen more tangible progress i have added at these levels and higher (up to 120p), but my approach for my investment strategy is unique to me and my needs ... i prefer to scale into a position as i learn and understand more / its validated by business progress (not just share price as that is where some of us believe we have an information edge!) to manage position sizing and cost. So yes whilst i bought a lot of VRS shares at 18p to 30p my average cost is c. 45p.

As i have spent most of my time trying to understand the company strategy and steps they need to take to create value then i'm v comfortable with a multi year view for progress and status of collaborations ... back to my original post this is backed by the realism that to do new product development with a new material, let alone the ambitious step that VRS are taking in building out a graphene enhanced supply chain that they ultimately control and generate value from will take time. When it arrives they will be able to scale fast into major customers processes with plug and play material solutions and capture a lot of value. Here's hoping!

[squire007] 11/11/2019 12:20

Page 12 ... :-)

[schmally] 11/11/2019 11:55

One thing I do know about the Vivobarefoot/VRS collaboration was that both firms sponsored an MSC Textiles student to assist with the research and product development testing for 8 months, which also involved visits to China as part of the students dual sponsorship programme . It could well be that Vivo were happy with the testing and results and are simply waiting for graphene production costs to reduce slightly once VRS are mass producing. It's interesting that the student visited China, as this may suggest they are planning future production there?? Plenty of potentially valid reasons for collaborations like this to take so long, including whether one or both companies have the spare capacity to progress matters if either are focused on other potentially bigger deals

[mryl] 11/11/2019 11:54

MikeB, thanks. I should have mentioned that this was pure speculation and not what I believe but what is possible (after all this is AIM). My investment being in the red due to listening too much to you and superg at 140-190p, I am more inclined to seeing things with a negative spin than you guys who have bought most of your shares below 30p (I assume). I am very optimistic about graphene in general and VRS in particular, but I will fully trust NR once we start seeing actual orders and not endless collabs.

[1teepee] 11/11/2019 11:38

I'm glad somebody agrees with me :) Great expression mike

[festario] 11/11/2019 11:38

Not for here ScmallyPM maybe?

[festario] 11/11/2019 11:36

A bit touchy there Mike.I thought we were all striving to be pleasant?

[mikebrenner] 11/11/2019 11:28

Mryl ... i'm sorry but i get rather fed up with endless speculation like the rubbish you just posted about Vivobarefoot.

I don't bother much these days on ADVFN replying to specifics hence my wider post to explain timeframes for new product development and the complexities involved to try to set some realism into posters here. However for you i will make an exception:

It was made clear in the 2019 Versarien annual report which i would recommend reading fully. Specifically go to page 10 where there are the collaboration updates for Vivobarefoot: "Production relocation caused temporary delay to the project. Initial compounding of materials has now been successfully completed with different variations of materials and loadings. Further tests now underway and first samples to be produced. Commercial understanding over a launch product in place".

Can i recommend that you do some research to build your understanding of versarien and this space before posting, or at least call out more clearly that you have no idea but are purely speculating. Ideally don't bother posting your speculation as its stuff like this that causes endless churn and mis-information on this board that distracts other investors.

Over and out

[woodpeckers] 11/11/2019 11:12

Thanks superg.

[chumbo] 11/11/2019 10:59

Graphene coated jacket. £525. Just in time for Christmas.

hxxps://www.vollebak.com/product/graphene-jacket-1/

[mryl] 11/11/2019 10:55

It could be that vivobarefoot acknowledged the benefit provided by Versarien's graphene but decided to not go through with using it "for now" and "potentially" using it in the future, when less expensive for instance. In that case, the collab would not have failed per se and therefore NR will never update the market on the actual situation even though no revenues will ever be generated. The update "all progressing well" means nothing without specifics. The only thing we can do s investors I suppose is wait and see and speculate either positively or negatively. This collab is not important at all anyways, I'd much rather see one single big collab with a massive order from a big name than lots of tiny orders with limited scalability.

[mikebrenner] 11/11/2019 10:39

DaveMac3 ... in response to your post about trainers and progress being slow with Vivobarefoot.

The thing i didn't know until i did research and ask around was just how complex the different blends of rubbers / foams that make up a simple pair of trainers, let along the textiles and elastomers that make up the uppers. I heard that a trainer sole has been optimised so heavily with R&D that it can have up to 19 different types of rubber materials in it, so one of the things that takes time to test is which rubber / materials are best to enhance with graphene (or other 2D materials!), what benefits / value do you enable, which materials can you remove as a result to simplify your product / manufacturing / remove cost etc ... then you need to understand how do i get a graphene enhanced supply chain of said material to my manufacturing sites, what changes does it make to my manufacturing process(all of this is R&D testing collaboration stage), when are these new products ready to launch (most companies like this are finalising the products for launch in winter 2020), what is my marketing activation plan, how will i ensure the right distribution etc ... Once a partner has a clearer picture of this and VRS have answered their needs sufficiently then the contracts and commercial payments happen.

Sometimes VRS will be lucky and there are existing projects and new product developments where they can insert themselves into the process and replace some other failed nano-graphite, other times they are starting from scratch with the partner who has a pressing business problem and a more simple material mix. This is why some processes are shorter to market as they are more simple, but many will have IMO c. 4 years as an average time for first contact to launch of initial (aerospace stuff with planes will be IMO 7-15 years).

This is also why their is alot of value in creating the VRS graphene enabled supply chain and data / business plan on how they can benefit from it and then that VRS can provide to partners at scale and integrate into their businesses fast. Note their has been huge progress in textiles partnerships and IP creation integrating into the supply chain that are applicable here. Over time this process will speed up in certain areas esp where VRS own all the IP.

I suggest that your timeframes / expectations are the thing that is out of kilter with reality, not the rapid progress that the company is clearly making.

[chapv] 11/11/2019 10:14

I see in the Sunday Times yesterday was a shirt jacket made with a Graphene coating.
In an article about future clpthing.

[superg1] 11/11/2019 10:03

Penn

Yes it is, but perhaps you haven't seen the one dated last week same guy.

That was for Woody who I think has seen it.

[pshevlin] 11/11/2019 10:01

Only proof of the situation in January 2018 SG.

[pennstreet] 11/11/2019 10:01

That's dated Jan 2018!

[superg1] 11/11/2019 09:57

Just or proof

[chopsy] 11/11/2019 09:54

1T, not structural plastics i.e. AECOM arches?

[woodpeckers] 11/11/2019 09:52

Thanks for those links Jointer, interesting that we have Martin Weil, from Bath City Council acting as a representative of the company....

[schmally] 11/11/2019 09:50

More accurately you mean. What exactly, was inaccurate in any info Neill shared with you Fest? He has never stipulated defined timelines for delivery of anything. He has shared his thoughts about estimated timelines on occasions, but he has always added clear caveats that many of the collaborations and especially the Chinese deals are to a large degree out of their control (governmental involvement, timing of infrastructure contracts, etc).

Aecom was clearly expected to land earlier, and it was stated that Aecom themselves had planned a big launch for the Arch, but they postponed it just 3 days before the launch date. Their arch launch is no doubt dependent on the infrastructure contracts Aecom are involved in, which everyone knows are prone to significant delays (Crossrail for example). However, given Aecom's excitement about the Arch (this is clearly evident by their own pride in the product), it's patently obvious they will be using them in infrastructure projects soon. It's simply when, not if. It's also clear, their excitement about the benefits of 3d printed graphene enhanced polymers has extended the potential range of applications they would like to exploit and develop solutions for.

With regards to China, anyone who has attended the regular AGM's and investor days has heard how the China discussions and negotiations have developed and snowballed from one province to multiple provinces, governmental agencies, and other 3rd parties. No doubt VRS had a fairly clear timeline for completing initial deals, but the complexity and scale increased significantly which has clearly lengthened contract discussions. The DIT staff involved with VRS are solely focusing on these complex negotiations. If they were not really happening, they wouldn't still be with the business.

[johnveals] 11/11/2019 09:49

NR will not, and cannot, provide price sensitive information via e-mail, direct mail or any other mail. For that we need to look at the RNSs.

To suggest otherwise is yet more FUD from the usual sources.

[1teepee] 11/11/2019 09:43

That's where deals get signed

[1teepee] 11/11/2019 09:42

Textiles ConcretePackagingMicro flow heatersCoatingsIMO