Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[shavian] 12/10/2019 08:46

Must listen to this again Grabster, I had missed that bit about two separate programmes.
Most of this webcast is very familiar territory to avid followers of this board, yet it is so good to hear the basics and the background all spelled out so clearly by Terence Barkan, in a way that suggests that most roads lead back to Manchester, Cambridge and by inference to a little company based in Cheltenham.

I found the Q&A very revealing. His view on the 6000 Chinese Graphene companies was quite pertinent to the BIGT/VRS question. Of these, 1000 are dormant or dead, leaving 5000 apparently active. Most of these (reading between his lines) were set up with central or local government assistance when China declared Graphene as an essential component in the current 5-year plan (possibly as a result of President Xi’s visit to UoM in 2015?). So many of these may be overly-ambitious startups or ‘bandwagonR17; companies seeking to cash in on the mystique of the name Graphene, without much clue of the practical difficulties of commercialising the stuff. And as we know, there have been many shysters and snake-oil salesmen hanging about Graphene in the Western world, so we could assume that the same applies in China, but on steroids.

There will certainly be some great potential among the rest of this 5000, but there is little sign of them impressing BIGT, which is the central Chinese government’s appointed equivalent of GEIC, hence their long journey on to the road to Cheltenham, now hopefully nearing its final destination.

[schmally] 12/10/2019 08:35

One of the risks highlighted by Terence B was the potentials hazards of dealing with Graphene in powdered form. He suggested that it was far more desirable for Graphene to be supplied in master batches which as we all know is the VRS preferred method of supply. The formulation of those master batches to specifically match client requirements is however a huge challenge for any supplier and requires extensive experience and test data in how to get the morphology correct depending on the gains and results targeted. The continuously expanding database of confidential test results across multiple applications and industries and the ability of VRS to produce master batches consistently to exactly match requirements is invaluable. The difficulties and delays result from clients often wanting to test a range of different mixes and loadings which can achieve variable results and different benefits This can take a very long time to get right. lets not forget that by just changing the % loading of Graphene by 1/1000% can have a material impact on performance. No major clients will just be satisfied with the first couple of batches even if performance gains are massive. They will want to tweak and explore other potential benefits with different leadings.

[grabster] 12/10/2019 08:19

Great link Iain. Thank you.

I notice 'Verified Graphene Producer' and 'Verified Graphene Product as two separate qualification programmes. We know that Versarien holds the 'producer' qualification (and is apparently alone in doing so). Do we know who (if anyone) holds the second one?

[ad631] 12/10/2019 07:09

'All the evidence I need is in RNS's' - funny how people can read the same thing and come to different conclusions. Yes, there are risks, but If anyone can add to the 'PRINCIPAL RISKS AND UNCERTAINTIES' - pages 16-17 of the Annual Report I'd really appreciate it :)

[jimboau] 12/10/2019 03:16

All the evidence I need is in RNS's & their woeful Results and that amounts to sweet FA even after how many years and years is it now (lest you forget NR's previously awful delivery record too)!? Look at the flurry of RNS's before NR's last dump and those since? You are either insanely gullible or up to your eyeballs in it here!? Use the filter as most of the 3 wise monkey folk do, denial is a great tool for losing money in the stock market.

[schmally] 12/10/2019 00:12

More of the usual nonsense from Jimbo. I bet you haven’t even listened to the Terence Barkan podcast or ever taken note of anything other than shorters soundbites. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously if you are unable to debate the pros and cons of VRS in a balanced fashion. Just spouting the same lazy messages does not make for an informed debate. The podcast actually also highlighted a couple of risk factors and gave some credibility to 2-3 competitors if you actually want a bit of genuine material to work with To prompt some Interesting debate. You’ll have to listen to it yourself though to pick out those bits however. I can’t do everything for you.

[jimboau] 11/10/2019 22:56

The damn is definitely cracking here,50% off it's laughable highs and it's membership of the 99% club awaits. Nailed on imo. The other thread is something to behold, a clear illustration of how foolish people can be and why so many lose shedloads on the stock market. They are fodder the likes of NR and other market participants can thrive on and take to the cleaners whilst living it up themselves. Where's the ramper in chief these days, circled back to IOF by the looks of it - go figure?

[hattie1] 11/10/2019 21:58

Brilliant posts tonight and as you say Schmally every confidence in VRS to deliver , our CEO and the team have skilfully placed VRS at the forefront of the graphene revolution....

[schmally] 11/10/2019 21:38

Iain, having sat through the podcast and the accompanying presentation earlier this week, some of the detail shared by Terence Barkin was extremely exciting. A few mentions of VRS specifically in relation to the Aecom arch and that they were the only verified producer, plus details about how complex and comprehensive the verification process is. No surprise therefore, that nobody else has as yet been verified. Another highlight was that there are apparently 5000 other active Chinese graphene companies many of which have had significant government support to get the industry up and running. Amazing therefore, that they are pursuing VRS so vigorously to set up in China. This tells you everything you need to know about how hard it is for others to replicate what VRS have and to manufacture quantity consistently. In response to one of the questions about confidential tests with nylon yarns in the textiles industry, Terence highlighted the huge 400-500% strength gains in comparison to far less impressive performance increases in other applications already in the market. He seemed genuinely excited by this and interestingly suggested he believed test data would be in the public domain in a few months. I’m certain this was related to the VRS collaboration which would suggest there would be a compelling case for wide spread use across the industry. Plenty of other interesting points such as the Estimated demand for graphene in the maritime industry alone would be more than the current total global graphene production capability, which as we know also includes a lot of unverified low quality graphene pretenders. And as one last takeaway snippet, his suggestion that it’s more important to find a graphene partner who knows how to formulate graphene and with a clear understanding of how to ensure the greatest gains, than just finding a graphene producer. Never felt as confident in VRS

[bobsworth] 11/10/2019 21:33

Iain many thanks for the link.
Liked the "Hype Cycle" showing we are now in the commercial adoption phase. Great example: AECOM CNCTarch designed, built & now under testing in the open enviroment and looking good for adoption & commercialisation in a relatively short period of time.
Great to be reminded of graphene's multiple applications and the enhanced perfomance improvements it offers.
No wonder the Chinese want a significant stake in VRS who is the only company in the world with independantly verified graphene, 'Verified Graphene Producer’
Convinced that if VRS sign upto a BIGT deal it will rapidly speed up the full commercialisation phase of Graphene too.
With all the ducks linning up nicely now i.e. quality & higher volume production, choice of factory facilties etc, here's hoping we will not have too much longer to wait now!

[squire007] 11/10/2019 21:15

A must watch ..... i dare you not to smile after :-)

[iain dick] 11/10/2019 20:32

If you have invested ...

[rogerbridge] 11/10/2019 20:22

Roger, A good unbiased piece that highlights the phenomenal strengths of the VRS offering.

[spike_1] 11/10/2019 20:22

AD: so do I - have a good weekend all long term holders - Spike ;0)

[ad631] 11/10/2019 19:48

At the start of the year I thought VRS would be one of the top share price performers. With whats in the mix and 11 weeks left, I still have hope.

[woodpeckers] 11/10/2019 19:13

Great find Roger! Love the final sentence:

"These two Graphene Flagship spin offs join the numerous other companies in the Versarien group, creating a real force to be reckoned with for graphene commercialisation and business growth.”

Good to see that they can see the progress we are making compared to our competitors.

Have a good weekend all...we're another week nearer those orders.

[club sandwich] 11/10/2019 18:59

"Wouldn?t want to be out over the weekend!! Nod, nod, wink, wink! I?ve done my top up today."Obviously why the share price ticked up so strongly into the close... Delusional.

[wuzy] 11/10/2019 17:43

We're all entitled to a little moan,compared to never stopping winging. Have a great weekend all and here's hoping for great news next week.

[tim3416] 11/10/2019 16:46

Why on earth would you want more VRS shares pshevlin? You moan like hell about the ones you've got!

[wuzy] 11/10/2019 16:31

A good decision you won't regret it.

[red7al] 11/10/2019 16:30

Thanks to all those that took part in MCAP chat especially those without unnecessary bad language and/or irritated/aggressive undertone.Surprised that 30T was not strongly challenged and big players didn't interject.Many CEOs that have been recently popular including those for BIDS, HZM, SKIN, ORPH to name a few set clear date targets. Perhaps VRS is too different from these, but a call for patience has no time lines despite the hype/noise.It was worth the time to post and get input, enjoy the weekend.

[pshevlin] 11/10/2019 16:27

Against my better judgement I've ended the day with more shares than I started with. Spells disaster!