Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[rogerbridge] 15/2/2019 07:50

I do believe in the VRS team, it is more than just Neill, we have experts in every position in the company.
There has possibility been too much Twitter hype, particularly around the last rns, that leaved some deflated. That was due to over enthusiasm by us investors.

I can see where some are coming from, personally am £100k + down from some months ago but still more than that up. I am sure there are may more here with larger holdings in a similar position. It is no reason to run around like headless chickens, share prices go up or down usually on sentiment rather than what is actually happening in the business. Currently, some here are scaring away any new investor who happens to read this thread. I do not worship Neill, but I do believe he and the team are working 24/7 and I believe in the business and in the team.

If investors are not enjoying this bout of turbulence, the sensible action to take would be to de risk or sell up and find somewhere else for their funds.

The huge contracts that we are negotiating will take time, But these could be life changing for some here.

Now team, go and get those orders.

[ellissj] 15/2/2019 07:49

Just as i see it ppl. Sincerely hoping it helps everyone. Best ellis

[pshevlin] 15/2/2019 07:45

Anything to do with us?


Scientists have developed a nearly entirely weightless material that can protect against some of the most extreme temperatures anything could ever face.

The aerogel is made up almost entirely of air and weighs only slightly more than it, allowing it to be used in a whole host of environments.

But despite that lightness it can withstand intense temperatures. It was able to perform well when heated to 900 Celsius and then straight away cooled right down to 198 Celsius, according to the authors of a new paper in Science detailing the discovery.
Such materials could be of particular use in environments such as space. Travelling on rockets and other spacecraft can bring such intense heat and cold temperatures that it can easily destroy them.

This new material could be ideal for use in areas like the heat shields on space vehicles, the authors say.
Aerogels are a material made up of air that is stuck within a network made of a solid medium, such as ceramic, metal or carbon.

Ceramic aerogels can be incredibly lightweight, but still able to endure demanding environments. However, they are usually very brittle and easily degrade, making them hard to use as insulation and limiting their adoption.

Nasa's Opportunity Mars rover is officially dead, space agency says
However, the new ceramic aerogel has been created using atomically thin sheets of a substance known as hexagonal boron nitride. That was carefully engineered into a new material that does not expand outwards when it is compressed or heated up, unlike other similar materials.

It then succeeded in a whole host of tests, including experiments that heated and cooled it rapidly. The aerogel hardly changed at all, the authors right, and did not lose any strength.

[tim3416] 15/2/2019 07:43

Great post Ellis :-)

[ellissj] 15/2/2019 07:40

Someone said a depressing read on here yesterday. :-( indeed. But to my mind, the truth willed out. Both fest (and club) suffered heavy losses in a previous share and are looking for reasons why the same event could happen here in vrs. 'Once bitten, twice shy' probably explains it. Except their portfolio's are again unbalanced, being overweight in vrs. No shame in that, i am too. For me, it's because i believe in vrs story and have confidence in the management. They do too, else logically they wouldn't be here. Versus that judgement, i am happy to patiently wait and support the team. It can't be a perfect journey - that is called life. But because of their previous experiences, and personalities, they behave differently. Basically, they are transferring the pain of their previous losses onto this share and trying to make it real in their heads by fitting the circumstances of what went wrong there, onto vrs. Broadcasting doubt and despair in the process. (Which is an irrational trading strategy - in effect talking down/self harming their investment). But - if they really believed their thoughts, they would have sold, and wouldn't be here on this BB. If you are affected by them, you are simply connecting to their pain, and to their fear of loss. Which as human beings, we all feel at some level, which is why you can understand them. There is no way to reassure them, it's their 'stuff' and in their heads. Matt w tweeted club offering to meet him but he refused. Very sorry fest and club, this is vrs not iof. I hope this helps to give you perspective you need to move on from that unhappy experience. We all want to do well here. Aimo. Best ellis

[soilderboy] 15/2/2019 07:29

It's all errelevant;Where are the orders?

[1teepee] 15/2/2019 07:26

Yes lower energy, less plastic and able to use a single polymer which makes it more recyclable

[matheus7777] 15/2/2019 07:24

Cant remember who but various posters have discussed the lower energy levels required to produce graphene containing plastic bottles, presumably coming with a weight saving in addition

[1teepee] 15/2/2019 07:23

It's called the balloon effect. Where you squeeze one part and another becomes more inflated. Lucky we aren't trying to replace plastic with glass. We are trying to use less and more recycled plastics

[spid81] 15/2/2019 07:22

Morning Club,

can you please explain why you think "that the IP inside VRS is worth a fortune." (post 59339)

VRS is yet to announce it has successfully commissioned the larger production unit (3tpa) or disclose what % of the Graphene is Nanene,



It is also yet to announce that the Graphene Council has "independently verify that the Company's Nanene graphene nano platelets meet their demanding standards"

Considering the Graphene Council take a random sample it is significantly more important that a sample being provided by the company, I.e like what happened with the Chinese Test. Nearly 8 months have passed since the RNS announcing that the Graphene Council selected VRS as their first test partner, Maybe the new production facilities are yet to be completed?
I still cannot see how VRS will have any chance in protecting their IP.


The company has already previously explained "Proprietary licenced processes using standard industrial equipment Graphene nanosheets by ionic liquid assisted grinding" (page 4 - link 1)

The Ionic Liquid needs to be atleast one of the following. (link 2)

"Any known type of ionic liquid in the art is suitable for use in the processes of the current invention. Particular preferred ionic liquids are those which comprise an organic salt, wherein the organic salt contains one or more cations selected from the group consisting of ammonium, imidazolium and pyridinium ions. A preferred
organic salt is one containing an imidazolium ion. A highly preferred ionic liquid is l-butyl-3-methyl-imidazolium hexafluorophosphate, BMIMPF6"


Issues with Ionic Liquids from a material scientist from FlexeGRAPH (link 3)

"Graphene can also be exfoliated from graphite using other special solvents such as n-methylpyrrolidone (NMP) or ionic liquids (ILs). Relatively low concentrations of single and few layer graphene are produced by suspending graphite in NMP followed by sonication or another type of agitation. The graphene sheets are relatively pristine, or defect free, however the solvent is difficult to remove and was recently listed as a substance of very high concern by the EU regulatory body REACH. Ionic liquids (ILs) are also another class of solvent options that allow the production of high quality graphene materials. ILs have very low environmental footprint because they evaporate incredibly slowly but this also presents a challenge in removing this solvent on drying of the graphene product or mixing with other liquids. It is also important to recover the ILs as the costs of these solvents are very high."


Anyway getting to my point, If the VRS method is using standard equipment which was confirmed by the GEIC meeting notes by many on here, whey VRS had a third party commissioning the equipment,

What value do you really put on the ionic liquid ?
How will VRS determine if China or any other party is using its own Ionic Liquid,

We have all seen recently how China has been stealing IP of late, VRS would be better off manufacturing its graphene.

BTW this is my favourite line in the Patent,

"Manual grinding with a mortal and pestle for 1 hour or less (e.g. for 30 minutes or less, such as 10 to 30 minutes) typically produces graphene nanosheets. Grinding for more than 30 minutes, especially more than one hour (e.g. 2-4 hours) produces increased amounts of graphene nanodots." (link 2)


I am not disputing that Versarien can make Graphene (at lab scale)
No doubt they have been able to show it can be refined to show good quality.

However that doesn't make the IP worth billions.

Many other firms can do the same by selecting their best, this isn't a commercial production facility like what FGR have built

you should also know that FGR has a third method available to them for the manufacturing of Graphene that is very similar Versarien's process, It is called Turbo Thin Film,



Sources:

[matheus7777] 15/2/2019 07:17

From BBC Business this morning; Cutting back on single-use plastics could have unintended consequences, points out Spencer Dale, Chief Economist at BP and formerly of the Bank of England."If you swap a plastic bottle for a glass bottle, that takes about 80% more energy. That will be more energy, more carbon emissions. That bottle is a lot heavier so it takes an awful lot more energy to transport it around.""Yes we should be concerned about plastics, but before we start whacking that mole. We should worry about where it pops up somewhere else."

[1teepee] 15/2/2019 06:48

Good post , we should all be patient

[rheumking] 15/2/2019 06:06

Scrut
Thanks for your comments - we could do with some more sage and considered opinions on here such as yours
Your previous post struck home for me and I adjusted my time frame and expectations from one of rapid progress in 12 months to one of 2-5 years from here given the difficulties involved. But I have every confidence the journey will be worthwhile
I have never met him but I am impressed that he is a man of great integrity which is a rarity in this game sadly
My only slight criticism would be that in his enthusiasm he has raised expectations within a short time frame for a number of matters that didn’t come to fruition eg China by June ISO etcand that has led some to question his overall judgement unfairly
However that only reflects a man who is proud of his company and his team quite rightly but it has given his detractors some ammunition

[ridicule] 15/2/2019 01:33

Well said Scrut. Your post has uplifted what has been a very depressing read on here today. Neill will deliver, and if some doubt him then they should be doubting the Aecom Director who lauded the deal they are putting together with VRS. They should also doubt Matt and Peter who are both senior civil servants who in my experience will be men of integrity, having worked with a number over the years, when they say how excited they are with the prospects they are working with win VRS.

[bisho4] 15/2/2019 00:45

Scrut, you are one of the few voices of reason on here. Thanks again for your input.

[scrutable] 15/2/2019 00:29

tina and fest

I am 91 and starting to have difficulty in moving about, and had no way of getting to Cheltenham for the Investor day. Neill happened to read of my disappointment on ADVFN or word-of-mouth, and is of nature, charitable of disposition. He is also clearly a very good time manager, used the journey to work on the train, took all of 10 minutes to reach my home, close to Exeter Central, and talk a bit of my professional subjects (International Marketing, Engineering, and Germany)over coffee. Two more minutes to clamber downstairs to Cote Brasserie next door to host a modest lunch and was off all too soon. I hope you all think it was time well spent because the visit was the inspiration for a much lauded review/interview I was immediately able to post.

I hope that I reciprocated his very unusual gesture by reflecting the added confidence needed by investors to withstand the long unavoidable period of gestation needed for scientific discoveries to effect profound change.

I am confident that the absolutely huge number of collaborations entered into by VRS over the last 18 months ensure that a few begin to show traction much earlier than the average 5-15 years needed to develop a new Resource or Science into generating Cash.

[festario] 14/2/2019 23:18

At the risk of sounding like Donald Trump, nobody, Nobody... would be happier than me if VRS issue an RNS tomorrow that blows all my concerns out of the water... Nobody!

[ellissj] 14/2/2019 22:50

Indeed, sleeping soundly here tonight, goodnight. Best ellis

[rocket fuel] 14/2/2019 22:44

some of you guys need to take a break from the boards for a bit!

[diplomat65] 14/2/2019 22:44

Not heard of this process before. Have any of you?htTps://www.futurity.org/laser-induced-graphene-composites-1982392/

[magpie61] 14/2/2019 22:39

Some posters definitely best like French cigs of my youthAvec filter

[festario] 14/2/2019 22:30

Done Pshevlin, please will you forward it to Hawkwind, it took me ages to type, and I forgot to copy it! ... and send a copy back to me in your reply.Ellis, you are only right to a tiny degree there. Ask yourself if you would allow it to happen to you again if you saw clear parallels?

[ellissj] 14/2/2019 22:20

I'm afraid what you're describing fest is investing pure and simple. The holders in pat valerie were done for by a crooked accountant. Carillion by a board paying out bonuses on future profits :-0 maxwell raided his pensioners fund. Whatever happened to blackberry phones ? I used to like the pick n mix at woolies. Ce la vie. Only Hindsight is 20/20. Aimo. Best ellis