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[spike_1] 24/10/2018 10:42

Neill's response in full:

Neill Ricketts
‏
Hope you didn't spend too long on that @timkempster , you should really concentrate on your business.


that actually isn't evidence @timkempster , unless you are evidencing a typo lol, your assumptions are unfortunately flawed. If anything our platelet sizes have increased as we scale up but we remain cautious about what we put out there.


Neill Ricketts Retweeted Tom walton

Yes unfortunately it really isn't news, he is desperate love him. Just a typo which was why it was revised. It the range in which we can operate, some customers require smaller platelets and some larger. His level of scientific understanding is a worry though, summer camp?


Replying to @neillricketts
Neill TK is back in bb again today ref this quoting difference in lateral size and aspect ratio between version 4 and v5 of your technical spec sheet . Sowing doubt as ever just thought you would like to know

[ratpat999] 24/10/2018 10:38

Neill has allready slapped the idiot down 😂

[loglorry1] 24/10/2018 10:36

Yes unfortunately it really isn't news, he is desperate love him. Just a typo which was why it was revised. It the range in which we can operate, some customers require smaller platelets and some larger. His level of scientific understanding is a worry though, summer camp?
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A typo! Really? It was copied into the July Presentation. If platelet sizes have gone up how come the typo was "corrected" in the opposite direction! Also why no average size given anymore!

[severnof9] 24/10/2018 10:34

SuperG

I hold a considerable number of shares here and I have not sold any other than to transfer into ISA. I believe Tim is shorting but I also believe he has raised a question that VRS should answer. It was always a concern of mine whether scale up would replicate the results

To be fair to Tim you have raised lateral size as an important aspect. Tim is making the point that the average lateral size is no longer stated. There may be nothing sinister in that but it would help for VRS to clarify this issue.

Your post of 27 January explained why lateral size was important

The recent CPI tender where VRS won all tenders they applied for. Anyone worldwide could have applied.

hxxps://www.uk-cpi.com/login/resources/tenders/676-nanomaterials-and-composite-materials-1.pdf

some examples

Lot 8

2. Lateral dimensions 500nm - 2μm
3. Thickness <3nm

Lot 10

Lateral dimensions 2 - 5μm
Thickness –; less than 7 layers on average

Now compare that to the one I thought was up with VRS. Thomas Swan in the UK.

They have 3 types of GNPs.

Material, Electrical and premium and they call them all graphene.

Starting with the best note the lateral size average of 1um.

Number average platelet size of Elicarb® Premium Grade Graphene Powder by TEM image analysis shows an average X-Y platelet dimension of 1000nm

Forget the other two they are listed as multi-layer and therefore will no longer be allowed to be called graphene.

Now back the the CPI tender.

Lateral dimensions 2 - 5μm

Lateral dimensions 500nm - 2μm

You can see that when Swam use their process they lose the lateral size needed for effective bonding with composites.

They don't try to mislead anyone either as this is what they list their use for.

Displays, sensors and device R&D.

You see if you don't get it exactly right then the full range of GNP gains is lost.

Now compare a 1 um average to Nanene which is 0.5μm to 10μm.

The surface area for bonding is multiples better than what swan have.

So in short In was told don't worry about Swan they smash their Gnps all to bits in their process. I checked it out and it's true.

TS have nothing to compete with Nanene and I had them as closest to VRS.

[ellissj] 24/10/2018 10:33

I believe in a poddy a while back, neill said that vrs can process +nanene as necessary to achieve customer specs. I imagine their customers are looking at high value applications that require actual graphene nanoplatelets per iso defn. That vrs have advised +nanene meets. The only 'graphene' company to publically declare to my knowledge. Aimo. Dyor. Best ellis

[cheek212] 24/10/2018 10:33

Just a thought - we know that Miton were selling down their holding a few months ago but the recent Times article suggested that Gervais was solidly behind VRS which would therefore suggest they have stopped selling. However, are they now lending out their shares instead of selling them? I am just a bit intrigued that we didn't really suffer any shorter action until the last week, and they have to be getting their share supply from somewhere? There didn't seem to be a supply available a few months ago but recently there does so what has changed? This has mainly happened since the placing so hat has happened to those shares? Or maybe our cornerstone investor is lending out in order to reduce the price and get a higher holding at a lower price? Essentially what T Rowe are doing on IQE. Anyone else got any ideas?

[club sandwich] 24/10/2018 10:32

Super

"Hats off to him though without him there would be no case in play against the PRG fraud"

mmm, TBH that's looking tiskier than I would like at the moment. Seems the law firm was relying on some chums of TW's to provide advice, and they're now backed out from doing so (any friends of that scumbag...). I have made my disappointment at wasting so much time known, and have made clear that s'holders expect to see solid progress before too much longer. Let's see what happens...

[superg1] 24/10/2018 10:31

P@

On that point when production is in play some methods destroy desirable lateral sizes.

EG one has a range of 500nm to 1000nm , whereas Nanene ranges from 100 nm to 10,000 nm.

The problem with a prolific number small laterals is its ability to adhere to the composites, it doesn't have the surface area.

In the efforts to few layer many destroy lateral sizes and cause defects along the way due to harsh methods aka Smashing them all to bits.

Too big is also an issue it was in various science papers, although too big in just about all cases means they are many layer graphite.

[occultusverum1] 24/10/2018 10:29

Log, do you ever feel embarrassed about your failed attempts at discrediting VRS/Neill? I read on another website where you are calling for better regulation of the markets, that did make me laugh.

[club sandwich] 24/10/2018 10:28

So as regards China, what are the possibilities? Seems to me there are two - a 'big bang' government-level agreement, or a deal-by-deal approach.

If it was the latter, I reckon the first deal would have been signed by now. In this scenario if I were VRS I almost wouldn't worry about the valuation issue - any first deal resulting in a production facility will massively improve leverage with other Chinese parties (to say nothing of America) and will in and of itself boost VRS's MC for any future deals. There are of course still the IP issues, but strip the valuation concerns out of the way and a deal certainly becomes much easier.

There has been a lot of speculation on here about the first possibility, a government-to-government deal. Which can't (apparently) happen until after March 29th when we leave the EU. Which doesn't fit with the speculation on here - that such a deal is days/weeks away - at all. I did specifically ask NR on Twitter a while back if Brexit timings had any impact on a China deal and he denied it, so make of that what you will...

[tini5] 24/10/2018 10:28

And that's why it's good to have your CEO on Twitter as it's an excellent platform from which to debunk the attempts by others to cast aspersions or infer problems where they don't exist.

[loglorry1] 24/10/2018 10:28

Kempster! You will bow before the mighty SuperG.
He does not make death threats, he has the power, if he chose to use it, to kill you... bring you back to life... and kill you again and again.
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Although SuperG doesn't seem to have the basic ability to reason logically. Seems a bit star struck by NR if you ask me.

[jointer13] 24/10/2018 10:28

hat actually isn't evidence @timkempster , unless you are evidencing a typo lol, your assumptions are unfortunately flawed. If anything our platelet sizes have increased as we scale up but we remain cautious about what we put out there.

[rheumking] 24/10/2018 10:27

Yes unfortunately it really isn't news, he is desperate love him. Just a typo which was why it was revised. It the range in which we can operate, some customers require smaller platelets and some larger. His level of scientific understanding is a worry though, summer camp?
Please see above reply from NR on twitter to question about lateral size

[p@] 24/10/2018 10:26

Maybe VRS customers would rather know average lateral size data.

[jointer13] 24/10/2018 10:26

well that's cleared that up...lol

Neill Ricketts
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@neillricketts
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6 minutes ago


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Neill Ricketts Retweeted Tom walton
Yes unfortunately it really isn't news, he is desperate love him. Just a typo which was why it was revised. It the range in which we can operate, some customers require smaller platelets and some larger. His level of scientific understanding is a worry though, summer camp?

[axotyl] 24/10/2018 10:25

"It is technically now possible that 99.99% of the flakes are at the lower end e.g. 0.1um because no average size is now given. I'm not claiming that is the case but it is mathematically possible".

Log, this is complete bilge, and means nothing. How can we counter your 'claims' sensibly and have a constructive debate?

It's mathematically possible that a monkey could rewrite Shakespeare's complete works, but I'm not claiming it's happened; I'll call Whipsnade to confirm, though.

BTW - why are you here?

[eel tamer] 24/10/2018 10:25

I'm in GWPH. The switch to the US saw a fantastic rerate and I'm up 1100%. No downside.

[loglorry1] 24/10/2018 10:25

SuperG said "As I said he is a lying crook posting false information regularly so don't trust a word the guy says."

Can you point out where I am lying in the post below:-

---------------------------

Yesterday I said this publicly
Evidence is also emerging that the morphology of Nanene has changed and not for the better as they scale up production to an eye watering 1Kg/day :-)

I was then accused of not supporting this. I said I would and I will now.

As you all know the CURRENT Nanene technical spec sheet is available at it is version 5 from www.nanene.com.

Properties/morphology are reproduced in a table below:-


Note the lateral size distribution 0.1u-10um

There was a previous version of this document Version 4 available here let's compare the properties again in the table from version 4


As you can see in the previous version the lateral size MINIMUM was far greater at 0.5um compared to 0.1um. FIVE times greater. Also an average lateral size of 2um was given where it is now omitted in V5.

This is evidence that the morphology has changed as I stated.

The V4 numbers were also referenced in the July presentation here (slide 18) describing results to March 2018 so it is reasonable to assume that this change is quite recent. Looking at slide 17 we can see that this change was during scale up.

Why is this change so important. The lack of published average size may mean the distribution of lateral sizes of the platelets is now more skewed towards the minimum 0.1um lateral size. Why is lateral size important? Aspect ratio increases with lateral size for the same thickness. Aspect ratio is defined as he (surface area) / (thickness or number of layers). If the lateral size has dropped by a factor of 5x then aspect ratio has also dropped significantly.

Aspect ratio has been found to be an extremely important property in re-enforcement of composite materials see the excellent survey paper which I quote from below


The most efficient reinforcement can be obtained when the product of ns is high; therefore, high aspect ratio is always desirable for the reinforcement of the composite.

[eel tamer] 24/10/2018 10:25

I'm in GWPH. The switch to the US saw a fantastic rerate and I'm up 1100%. No downside.

[superg1] 24/10/2018 10:24

Fest

Did that while back, like Jekyll and Hyde is CS. Hats off to him though without him there would be no case in play against the PRG fraud.

[p@] 24/10/2018 10:24

Maybe VRS customers would rather know average lateral size data.

[festario] 24/10/2018 10:23

Sandwich.... look skywards... clouds have parted, and blue numbers are shining through!

[jbe81] 24/10/2018 10:23

SP moving up

[club sandwich] 24/10/2018 10:22

Fest - well you've changed your tune over the past few days ;-)