Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 31/5/2017 15:43

No idea but I smile each time re the one next door called "Balls grinding"

[skylite] 31/5/2017 13:34

Do they do anything with Spirex Sarco Super? Big FTSE 250 engineering company right next door. I think they work in steam management processes Heat? Thermal conduction? Copper foam?

[superg1] 31/5/2017 12:08

Lucky exactly so I tough the answer was simple,. A man BTW.

Then followed by this

The Spanish group who created and distribute these products in 40 counties around the world are very sensitive in terms of revealing details, given the hugely competitive environment surrounding graphene research

Yeah aren't they all and generally the one's that have something to hide so they can exploit the graphene hype while standards don't exist.

The strap line is the eco part.

What's in it then

"Don't know"

I should reply saying ok can you get a tin and tell me what it says on the back of it.

Of course they don't have a tin it will be drop-ship type selling.

Not a snipe at the paint just at sales folk.

[shavian] 31/5/2017 11:59

Thanks for the thermal explanation SG. Got it!

[luckyorange] 31/5/2017 11:55

Says it all on the tin I expect! Was it a man or woman you spoke to?

[superg1] 31/5/2017 11:49

UK distributor/sales response to the graphene paint questions including how much graphene is in it.

in short "No idea" is the answer to all questions.

Great sales pitch don't you think to a prospective customer. :-)

[superg1] 31/5/2017 09:28

Shavian

I know the answer to that one but not this one.

How is the paint white? Hence my suggestion of very low loadings.

VRS gave out a sample of a white polymer and another with .5% or .1% loadings, I forget which but it turned the polymer black. Hence the line of any colour you like as long as it's black.

To answer the thermal it would be because of the lateral transfer of heat. EG the surface below would be less thermally conductive so the heat would dissipate along the coating and back into the room. Although one could argue that at some point no matter what the whole coating will reach the temperature of the room at some point but quicker with that meaning the that will dissipate just as normal.

Thermal is affected by the loading level and type of GNPs. It must be very low loadings to be white and therefore not that effective.

Surely if the gain is that good the key is to put a highly loaded paint as a base coat which would be black, then the top coat of the white version.

Carbon e paint which could create radiators with graphene is black. So I take that paint as a bit of gimmick to help promote the limestone paint.

Video re the radiator paint which would be great if that turns out to be viable.

[shavian] 31/5/2017 08:54

Pardon me for being stupid, but I would have thought that the thermal conductivity of graphene would increase rather than reduce the passage of heat through the paint layer from the interior of the building to the great outdoors? I get the potential advantage about the thin-ness of the paint increasing its coverage and thus potentially reducing cost, but surely this is more than cancelled out by the cost of the added graphene? Doh!

[superg1] 31/5/2017 08:46

Lucky

It looks like it's been round for 2-3 years. The paint is by Graphenano not to be confused with the AIM company Graphene nano.

[superg1] 31/5/2017 08:09

Lucky

I've sent some questions off. I suspect it will be very low loadings and not what we call graphene.

A good idea to sell paint though if there are performance gains to be made.

The big plus is the claims that its eco friendly as some on occasions raise that question about GNPs.

The VRS GNP production is stated as eco friendly by 2D tech in an article recently. GO which VRS produce is the polar opposite of eco friendly but thats'w hat currently has to be done to produce GO (typically the Hummers method)

"Hummers' method is a chemical process that can be used to generate graphite oxide through the addition of potassium permanganate to a solution of graphite, sodium nitrate, and sulfuric acid. It is commonly used by engineering and lab technicians as a reliable method of producing quantities of graphite oxide."

[luckyorange] 30/5/2017 22:47

World's first graphene paint launches in the UK
Miracle material graphene – considered the strongest substance known to science – has been used to make eco-friendly paint by manufacturer Graphenstone.

The paint is made from a pure lime base that has been combined with graphene – a recently engineered material hailed as the thinnest, strongest and most conductive ever developed.

It will be distributed in the UK through The Graphene Company, which claims Graphenstone is the most environmentally friendly paint in the world.

[supernumerary] 30/5/2017 19:58

If nothing else, it's a reminder how completely useless and out of touch the FCA really is. AIM has endless scams and shonky companies, and all the FCA can do is issue this sort of anodyne pablum. Three years after they first became aware of the problem, and what have they done? Got out the photocopier...

[shavian] 30/5/2017 18:53

Thanks SN, had not seen it before, and no harm in repeating it anyway

[phoenixs] 30/5/2017 14:13

rogerbridge, getting greedy now!

[rogerbridge] 30/5/2017 14:04

Yes, it is a minefield out there.
I am sticking with VRS and will be topping up soon. Could do with a lower price if possible.

[superg1] 30/5/2017 13:35

Shavian

Having looked into some listed companies they aren't much better than such scams and are simply hype to get a lifestyle in some cases.

First report which took many days just completed. :-)

[shavian] 30/5/2017 12:34

As SG1 has indicated the FCA has just published a warning to investors to be wary of brokers selling investments in graphene. Read it for yourself here:



Reading between their lines I do not think they are talking about direct equity investments into listed companies like Versarien. It would appear that there are unregulated funds now coming out which are promoting unlisted schemes associated with graphene. I have not seen any of these yet, but there have been many similar scams being promoted on investments into foreign property, forestry etc, which have ended in disaster, illiquidity and often total loss for the investors. Shares in VRS are fully liquid and trade openly on AIM, so we are free to sell them at any time, which may not apply to the sort of scheme the FCA is referring to. If you get approached by a 'boiler room' type of operation promoting graphene, please report it to the FCA and let us all know about it on the thread.

[superg1] 30/5/2017 09:53

I mention it as when I can't find the data I ask the company. So far I'm getting replies buy very poor ones that avoid basic answers to basic questions



So far it's just tumbleweed passing through on various enquiries once the questions are above gullible investor level.

However 3D labs replied the when I challenged their patent claims and other claims. They fully admitted contrary to perception that they can only produce evaluation/research samples.

"To answer your question: we have sufficient graphene production capacity to cover our sales of graphene as research material that we sell and satisfy our needs for internal R&D."

That's a far different from the hype of supplying many Fortune 500 companies (certain comments on that have rescinded in news). I expect that company to go belly up along with one a bit closer to home.

[phoenixs] 30/5/2017 09:32

superg, 4343 great advice.

[superg1] 30/5/2017 07:59

Some key questions you should consider.

Data sheet for the product supplied.

Layer thickness and don't forget 1 nm = 3 layers. Looking for under 10 layers
Lateral size
defect ratio.
purity.
Performance when used in products

Verifiable independent evidence and tests in relation to the above.

Amazing really with the above being the significant factor which determines whether graphene is will work that very few supply it.

Hype is the key to keep things spinning and funds still backing you to keep the lucrative salaries going.

[superg1] 30/5/2017 07:52

The FCA and graphene

Read it, the FCA were warning about those setting up on the graphene hype. So as I say DYOR and if you get caught through believing all you read from companies then don't moan when it all goes wrong.

I've done the fine-toothed comb on VRS and I'm very happy with it. In any case the technology os proven to work and so is the product. DYOR

The Financial Conduct Authority is to warn consumers to be wary of dubious investments in graphene offered by unscrupulous brokers aiming to cash in on the excitement generated by the "miracle material".

Graphene, discovered in 2004 at the University of Manchester, is a flexible sheet of carbon that can conduct electricity. It is only one atom thick but 100 times stronger than steel.

Though graphene has myriad potential applications, from flexible electronic devices to the manufacture of lighter aircraft, much research has yet to be done and the FCA said it would be posting a warning on its website on Monday about graphene-related investments.

[superg1] 30/5/2017 07:49

On the topic of Samsung they know how difficult it is to produce graphene. It was Samsung that thought they had a single layer CVD breakthrough back in 2014 scaled up and it failed.

Funny that others re finding out what happens on scale up and that it doesn't work but don't actually bother to tell investors or customers.

As time goes on having now crossed one or two off the producer list I can see why some end users may be sceptical about graphene as some have tried what suppliers call graphene but it isn't graphene that performs mainly due to it being multi-layer and other actors when its under 10 layers. XG sciences is a good example having found various papers to show their product does not work and is detrimental. As they were an early mover with some big names and big claims I suspect they have knocked the belief in graphene.

Imo as before some will disappear, XG being one on the top of my list for that. I also have 3D labs as a likely fail and did see then listed in a article recently in a list of graphene plays to watch.

Funnily enough so was another I'm working on which I think is set to fail (good reason to suspect that).

Don't trust those tip sheets and analysts they don't look deeply into the businesses Imo or understand graphene.

DYOR

[jointer13] 29/5/2017 15:53

10 strangest facts about graphene.