Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 13/6/2017 12:58

I did chat to the exiting Chair and he is busy with fingers in many pies. Asking about exciting ideas he may be backing I but wasn't too impressed with packaged cauliflower rice.

I did tell him been there done that on the Joe Wickes diet that a gang of us did. You chuck a cauliflower in a kitchen mixer turn it on and "hey presto" cauliflower rice which tastes like cauliflower minced up not rice (funny that).

Long story short I refused to eat it. It is hassle to make. My Mrs bought some in a pouch and 2 pouches in the rest went in the bin. She loves rice and is diet mad.

Long story short but hardly an exciting diversification over graphene.

Hmmm I wonder if nano scale cauliflower had some unexpected surprises and tastes like chocolate when nano scale. Now that would be one to invest in.

Hence I think we need a chair with a bit more vision. I must say I hid my disappointment well and he must have wondered how I know so much about Cauliflower rice.

So that's what the chair is pursuing, cauliflower rice, among other things.

[festario] 13/6/2017 12:43

Agreed, once some of SuperG's hints become solid progress, they must be rns'd ... At that point this price will be a long distant memory.

[phoenixs] 13/6/2017 12:41

IMO, when an RNS does come the share price will move quickly and investors looking for cheap entry will be disappointed.

[festario] 13/6/2017 12:34

Not easy to buy 2 lots of 10k today.... one lot is still pending!

[astralvision] 13/6/2017 11:39

Agree, VRS look good value, although potential buyers may wish to see if it hits support at 15p before bouncing.I guess the thing is 'conglomerates' never attract a high rating. Now VRS might not be quite that yet, but it is a spread of businesses that may well limit the downside and the upside.Solid news on graphene wouldn't go amiss either.

[superg1] 13/6/2017 11:23

Take AGM

A £43 mill market cap created on some lies and a technology that doesn't work in the way they would like investors believe.

That's all AGM have at the moment, lots of hype talk and no bulk production capability for viable graphene. They say 1.5-1.6 tonnes but to get quality GNPs the facts seem to suggest they can only do kgs in a year perhaps not getting into double figures. They hype it up and are quite happy to lie.

VRS at £23 mill and near half the market cap have, Carbide, AAC, graphene, copper foam and graphene ink.

So what value is the market giving a graphene production system that can scale up to tonnes on a relatively low cost, is proven to work and has the performance data to match from the UOM.

It's daft really that if VRS had just appeared as graphene that works and the graphene ink then the market cap would be much higher now with far less revenue and higher losses.

That's where the market it's nuts but then the market rarely has the first clue about what they are invested in. The underlying back up and tech lead for me is what makes it so investible. For me its great that investors don't like the underlying stuff as it offers up the blue sky cheaply perhaps free as the M/C was higher without graphene or the ink at one point.

As it stands AGM is dead but they can drag it on for years no doubt just like many do.

Fortunately if AGM does die I have enough info to help PIs when they may have bought in on certain news. AGM need to sort their graphene tech out. I have noted the structural ink news which to me is a part of the rescue plan but its years off and I have it as a ruse due to what I have learned about AGM.

Why name an unproven immature ink and trademark it when the original GNPs and tech has no name or trademark.

[superg1] 13/6/2017 11:09

Noira

No fund arising need that I'm aware of and folks shouldn't ignore innovate UK in which I suspect VRS will have applications in for funding of projects or otherwise.

You know PIs they panic sell. I forget who mentioned SXX where no one wanted them at 20p and then found;t get enough of them in the 30's and higher.

It's the way of the AIM and headless chicken PIs which outnumber calm Pis by about 10-1.

If VRS goes to 9p then the profit at least the profit taking argument finishes.

Just like as in other shares I'll be here for years unless there is some material change in the business which significantly changes the outlook long term.

The only changes so far that look material are significant upside potential.

I am not going to post things to hype it up. I could do should and they would be true but that would be it from me (I wouldn't be a welcomed shareholder) and its a pointless exercise anyway on financial forums and the risk of feeding chancers along the way.

The VRS team what to build a significant business with significant revenue, they have done it before.

Believe it or not Carbide could be a sleeper itself but few realise that and would rather VRS didn't have it. That however is more about knowing how blue sky shares with nothing get flying market caps but near all of those end up with failure as they go too high too fast on their M/C.

[superg1] 13/6/2017 09:59

That's why I get p'd off with AGM.

First the century composites news is untrue that has been confirmed to me by the CEO of Century (I have the emails). The 2nd point is why did the Nomad allow is to be released as news. I get they may not have known about the untrue bit but surely they must have known it was a very low value deal, which in RNS terms should not have equated to regulatory news.

The M/C that day went up £4.5 mill on a deal that is very low value and will never be more than that.

Imo it was all about claiming a production order rather than evaluation samples which is all they have ever sold elsewhere.

I'm not ignoring that news and what went on. I have made some strong comments the nomad in the last few days and won't got away. My question to them is are they complicit or oblivious. I've done exactly the same in comms to the IP group Chief investment officer who is on a the AGM bod, complicit or oblivious. No reply from them and it won't end there.

All fuelled by knowing many nomads and brokers being corrupt and watching many AIMS companies release false news.

So what else is untrue in AGM news and many other AIMs, I found loads of it over the years some of which is being used in case against Paragon diamonds.

You can't achieve anything by ignoring things and assuming no one will take action. I've had major successes in the past where the masses had long since given up.

[astralvision] 13/6/2017 09:51

Mind you in my experience a CEO is the worst person to ask about his own company's share price And if he didn't paint a rosy picture going forwards we would all be selling. Best just to make your own mind up from public information as nods and winks can remain nods and winks for a very long time.

[superg1] 13/6/2017 09:47

Astral

I don't mention nomads and the way they work for fun and you seem to know too.

I have spoken to many CEOs and few have good things to say about nomads and many suspect foul play all the time as they know when news gets put across to them and they can see what happens between the official news and when it was sent to them. The same goes on fund raising, mysteriously although it's supposed to be inside info action comes into play which suggest otherwise.

EG I unfortunately became aware of some inside info on one share I was about to buy. Post knowing about it with news imminent the share price climbed from 60p to over £1. A few weeks went by as I patiently waited for the news cursing the share price which kept climbing. After some time it was established the Nomad wasn't going to release it.

So on the Carbide side same circs here something potentially material for the full picture so why can't we know. Well that is down to the nomad with the line of "a grey area" which no doubt is what they use to suit their needs.

The relevant bit may or may not turn into the full picture but part one has been completed. If it did turn into the full picture then graphene for now would be irrelevant.

[john henry] 13/6/2017 09:36

Chart starting to look a little negative, step declines and retracement from recent 28p high.as with most tech stocks fundamentals needed to support valuations.

[superg1] 13/6/2017 09:33

Ali

Instead of asking us, ask the CEO and see what he says.

[superg1] 13/6/2017 09:31

ali

You should make your own decision. The drop isn't due to any bad news lurking. Results will have the losses as already explained by VRS. They have have capital spends on acquisitions and had the factory move for Carbide (£370k) plus the fit out of the new unit. In doing that they have significantly reduced costs.

On the flip side some knock Carbide and wish they didn't have it. I ask questions when things come up and I've mentioned the two things that were stated on Cambridge day. First defence order for a new product and paid for.

On answers given for one of those then if it evolves fully people will thank their lucky stars that Carbide is a VRS business. On the aircraft side it followed years of testing and is a sector where getting in is highly difficult.

They also said for those types of parts many Asia suppliers simply don't have the precision which is where Carbide came in for that.

On the graphene and copper foam side some NDAs have been stated on Cambridge day but it was asked they were not listed on here so we don't. However there have been enough hints elsewhere to give you an idea who is on the list.

On the year end news it would be wrong to assume Imo that there will not be news before that, but then there may not be news. I know historically on many shares news has been imminent but then some minor detail in legal wording can delay it for a few weeks.

You have been some names, if they did a material deal with any of those then what would the share price be then? I don't know how long they have been NDA'd with them or at what stage of the process we are. All we know is the very busy CEO finds the time to fly half way across the world to talk to them which tells you its no local engineer as the KLF alluded to. HE called them new friends (quite a hint I think)

So it depends whether you are in long term of fancy selling in a hope to get back in lower. In the case of getting in lower if its timed with material news then it simply does not work as everyone them wants some, but then it depends on the supply circs at the time.

My holding is at it's highest peak and I'm not selling and I Imo know more about the company than near all PIs. I'll be holding long term. Due to extra digging I can't buy anymore at this time.

But that's where you should ignore what others say and what others are doing. It's your money you decide and DYOR.


Typically Info PIs sell when prices are falling and on the lows then buy on the highs. Doing the opposite is why Buffet became a billionaire. But his various quotes on the topic are completely ignored by the masses.

[astralvision] 13/6/2017 09:28

Not sure why if there is non RNS news VRS wish to release they just don't issue a RNS non or do an investor news-letter, say quarterly.Sounds like VRS need to tell the nomad who pays the bills and get a bit tougher or get another nomad.I've seen this with other companies, naturally the nomad wants a quiet and easy life but it is incumbent on VRS to insist on what they want.Failing that, go for main market listing, no Nomad required. Ok, may be a little early yet for that, but worth planning for if VRS intend to grow to any decent size.

[phoenixs] 13/6/2017 08:52

superg, aircraft engines can only be two really and I would go for Rolls Royce.

On the defence side, carbide most probably for armour protection or maybe even armour piercing. Whichever would be very good news.

[superg1] 13/6/2017 08:29

BTW while on that topic

Carbide recently got a part through for a non critical part for aircraft engines, one of the big names. They mentioned it on Cambridge day with first orders expected about September.

They also mentioned a new product for the defence sector for Carbide and had been paid for the first order. Also mentioned on the day at Cambridge. So Carbide is starting to diversify as they said out would.

A good start to be aircraft engines and defence Imo. It does make one wonder on the potential size of future orders and potential revenues involved in those two news sectors.

I think VRS did want to mention them officially but the Nomad said no I believe. I assume it will be dropped into other news.

[ali47fish] 13/6/2017 08:28

i am selling after this drift down in the sp- anyone has a cogent argument as to whether there might be a reversal soon- anyone please!

[superg1] 13/6/2017 08:24

Just read some of it.

They don't do graphene but will supply the graphite.

Surely that hype news for a graphite mine as the supply level will be small then look at the content itself. They talk of graphene enhanced composites and engine parts.

You have go to be kidding that will be 15-20 years off at best, so I take that news to be quite a bit of hype for the graphite mine which I'll look up. Anyone that knows the aerospace appreciates how long it takes to get anything into an aircraft. Critical parts would take a decade or more at least.




Graphene modified materials may provide polymeric composites suitable for use in long-term high temperature and high humidity stability applications, such as aircraft engine parts, with lower weight and enhanced mechanical properties. The project targets a 20% weight reduction in aircraft at the system level, making way for lightweight, highly thermal resistant and more durable composite components. The enhanced durability at high temperatures will increase the application of polymeric composite that can replace metal structures in the high temperature regions of aircraft. The improved mechanical properties and stability from less moisture uptake will also expand the use of products/components already made with composites in continuous operation where temperature is below 150°C.



S

[superg1] 13/6/2017 08:13

Shavian

I haven't had a good read but in general I don't like junior mining stocks. Mining teams tend to hype it up significantly with little cash in the bank for projects which often cost 100's of millions.

Then all too often hot topics are simply chased by such miners. I take it as chancers seeing an opportunity to make some money by screwing backers without ever getting to mine status.

Look at Lithium, I know that pretty well. Room for about 5 or 6 majors of which they are 3 majors already but over 100 lithium juniors have appeared 95% plus of which will fail.

When graphene first became known there was some hype about graphite miners. but it was also connected to batteries. The pecking order being Lump/Vein graphite, big flake then small flake. A good AIM example is Stratmin Global with their Madagascar big flake mine.

I had a quick look at graphite and quickly hit a piece which said 'There are many graphite mines moth-balled around the world". On that basis I warned about chasing graphite plays as if it took off then mines would simply open and knock graphite back. I think I read recently about closed mines in China. China is littered with graphite mines it seems.

I just looked up Stratmin global and int looks like they have switched to gold having gone from 60 to 1p on the share price for graphite and a £2 mill market cap.

So I take any graphite play now talking about graphene trying to add some hype to a mining sector which is flush with prospect with many mines closed.

I see one called Bluejay had just appeared on a hot topic just exploring and securing licences at the moment and it has a market cap of over £100 mill. I remember Scrutable mentioning that sector with Sierra rutile and Kemare (something like that). I'd have to look how those two have done as it was a hot topic previously.

When it comes to graphene as in the case of Talga you have to understand what works and what each player is taking about when they say graphene. EG Graphene nano platelets definition for Talga is 10-150 layers. Many layer is what VRS call a waste product. Waste because thy are looking at the top end for all performance gains. Perhaps they will identify a use for the waste at some point, One idea was to use it as a starting material for the ink production process.

[shavian] 13/6/2017 07:36

Good point Lucky

[luckyorange] 13/6/2017 00:20

Just £160k is my first thought Shavian, it won't go far and needs a sellotape moment. to put it into perspective Samsung et al have over $1 billion grant to play with and appear to be going nowhere at the moment- or that is the impression they give me.

[shavian] 12/6/2017 22:34

A coming together of two of my interests: canadian mining company Leading Edge Materials is into graphene:

Any views?

[luckyorange] 12/6/2017 16:42

I wish that I was clever enough to identify a graphene product that the world can't do without , anyone fancy a garage start up? They do well apparently ;-)

[superg1] 12/6/2017 14:22

It looks that way Cyber, besides all the churn of short term profit takers it could be Henderson post fund switch, could be Will Battrick as Lucky suggested. I see he hasn't moved onto anything else so he made need some cash re his family circs.

Before anyone asks I have no idea who is or isn't selling just guessing.

Looking like it's news driven for how or suitable entry points some have in mind.

There are plenty of options that could see it re-rate some obvious, some not so obvious and some virtually invisible.

Hence it's fine waiting for an entry point but they can't all buy at the same time and can't cater for the unknowns.

I'd say it's the same on all shares but I don't know of many with so many big names talking to them. I know the tech and product is viable and proven and I'm also well aware of what some of those names have done with others.

I waste too much time on these threads and as I'm in for far higher prices (if they come). I think the chances of them seeing significant interest is high after all the research. So if such interest appears so do the investors with a key inflexion point being fund investors not PIs, but for funds certain milestones and boxes have to be ticked.

The CFO plan is break even in 12 months but that has little to do with where the share price could be if so if any those names like Samsung, Sony, Inmarsat (twitter) and many other big names sign up. Just one would do for now but such things take time.

But then us PIs are all so often too blinkered on the wider picture. There have been enough hints.