Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[cdub1] 27/6/2018 09:50

Can you tell me why rainbow23, I want to know exactly why you believe this, as we are getting bored of your inane cage rattling? Wouldn’t be so bored if you actually had some form of reasoning to your argument; give us the facts, figures, reasons. Quite happy to debate.

[club sandwich] 27/6/2018 09:48

lovat - I don't actually ask NR many questions these days. I often make what are intended to be humorous comments or replies (with varying success), but generally I leave him to get on with it. However, the fact remains that it will soon be 6 months since we were told that Jinan talks had started, and c. 9 months since the first collaboration was announced. I think s'holders are entitled to know how it's all going: and while I appreciate they won't be able to say too much, they could say, for example, that the talks with Jinan are ongoing and that the company's valuation is currently being established - nothing that s'holders won't know, but might reach new interested parties. Or they could say that (for example) with 3 collabs initial testing has been carried out and the partners are currently evaluating the results. All pretty vague high-level stuff, I know, but even that would be better than the news void (filled with guesses, hunches and tantalising snippets of information) that we have at the moment...

All IMO, of course.

[rainbow23] 27/6/2018 09:43

Cdub 1
Try 10 days instead of 10 minutes but I will agree with you on 80s.

[superg1] 27/6/2018 09:43

It took me a while to understand and there are some things I can't post to show why I link it up.

Hence I mention typically of there is a supply about it will come across around 8.15am.

So on any share where there have been Tr1 holdings reductions and suspected big sellers, imo stay off the road until that time has passed.

Another clue tends to be mid price unknown trades. Lovat would know better than me but those are often off market trades that are simply put through at whatever the mid price is at the time they come through.

So for me that means something is in play that we mortals can't see on level 2.

I noted that on a few volatile shares recently including late reports and sure enough holdings news has followed.

Following that has saved me a packet when trading random shares. I take that as abandon ship being misled by the MMs on level 2 warnings and get out when trading. So far it's been more or less the right call every time.

The MMs will make it look like stock is short get the buying going then wallop mysterious slump of supply appears and down it goes.

So watch out for odd moves without justification on volumes, mid priced trades and any late reports.

It means you are not on a level playing field and we are the ones with the least knowledge about what is going on.

[cdub1] 27/6/2018 09:37

rainbow is a another case of ‘ego’; thinks he can predict share prices, thinks he’s all clever because he got something right for 10 minutes but any moron could tell you this was due for a retrace, indeed it may fall down to the 80’s again if there is no news and a bleak general market picture but if there is news then £2 could happen in a shot. The sensible people look at facts and figures, the idiots follow their ego. People with big egos get crushed in this game.

[laginaneil] 27/6/2018 09:33

Hello Super, Thank you very much for your fuller explanation post 18512. Singer, bid offer etc. I am new to all this (1 year) and you explanation is invaluable to fill the gaps in my knowledge.

[dreamtwister] 27/6/2018 09:31

somewhere over the rainbow is a shed load of broken dreams.

[forestfred] 27/6/2018 09:26

Rainbow
Have been in a good number of years seen many such post like yours then they seem to disappear never to return unlike the long term holders .
Gl to you .

[willoicc] 27/6/2018 09:23

I was just thinking that the mining industry could put pressure on the tyre suppliers to fast track graphene in tyres.

Collaborations seem to be supply led rather than demand led.

[rainbow23] 27/6/2018 09:20

Well well, this share just keeps on giving. My favourite colour on show again today. Not long to go for £1 now. Any of the mugs who bought recently will have a very long wait to get their money back. Even N R is rowing back on the hype now. Don't say you weren't warned.

[spike_1] 27/6/2018 09:10

potsol - Patient Capital - yes exactly that.

[serratia] 27/6/2018 09:04

Trump is expected to sign up to a new law this week banning overseas companies from investing in new high tech companies. Perhaps we should reciprocate.

[potsol] 27/6/2018 09:03

Spike_1 Are you thinking the Patient Capital fund? I’m guessing with that kind of backing the valuation be easier to agree on.

[superg1] 27/6/2018 09:02

Spike

Not quite the same my end but the dots for me seem to indicate something along those lines.

There has been mention of patient capital, LSE start up unitive and now I see there is a relevant LSE Elite, we saw Silk Ventures, IUK have a loan facility in place now and so on.

It seems to me over the last year a number of government and LSE initiatives have appeared to support scale ups.

Obviously Matt's involvement enhances the prospects of some of those.

Obviously David Kerr has been material too in the discussions as clearly hinted at by Matt.

I just hope David is better at golf than fitting showers screens. A fairly simple task those unless it's a corner unit where you need 3 hands at least.

[grabster] 27/6/2018 08:55

willoic - I agree re earthmover tyres (in mining etc). Bridgestone claim to be the world's biggest maker of them.

[spike_1] 27/6/2018 08:54

So.... here's some wild speculation, based on Neill's pod comment that agreeing valuation is still up in the air.

What if it is VRS that is holding things up - because it believes there will be big news soon (as some of us here believe based in part on Friday's tweets from Matt and David Kerr, and 'radio silence'), and that news increases both the status and value of VRS, and thus improves its bargaining position.

BUT, alternatively .... what if (warning - really wild speculation) the big news is actually the UK Gov wanting a piece of the action and therefore prepared to put in say 50% of all the funds needed to get China up and running, not forgetting that currently VRS are not contributing any funding and therefore will own a smaller proportion of the action.

That way, VRS still gets - say - more or less it's original share, the UK Gov' get a direct share and most importantly if the UK Gov is directly involved, I venture to suggest there would be less chance of the IP being stolen.

Best wishes - Mike

[superg1] 27/6/2018 08:48

Alchemy

I don't think it was target date. China a said they would like to be up and running mid year. At that time they were offering VRS a higher rated deal to sign, VRS reduced it to a non binding LOI before they would sign it.

That then gives them time to carefully review what was on offer.

A lesser AIM probably with lifestyle thoughts would probably have signed it and done a merry dance in the UK with various media pumps in papers.

You have China a superpower and little old garage start up Versarien. Put on a lavish dinner, VIP treatment, get the national TV crews in and get the papers signed, job done.

NR is far sharper than that and no doubt a big hang on a frigging minute went off inside his head, then a "happy to sign a non binding LOI and then review it".

It was never meant to be news, the nomad insisted on it. The fear of the nomad that someone in China may spot it on the news and the nomad needed to cover their backside.

That should give a flavour on how desperate China are to get VRS on side. Why go to those lengths.

[andymoore07] 27/6/2018 08:45

Ok great thank you, always good to get a good understanding of the way things can work

[lovat scout] 27/6/2018 08:43

CS - agreed re Kempster. I feel NR replies to every critical tweet because he views silence will be taken as an admission that a detractor is right. NR is great about involving all shareholders but I just think NR has better things to do so it would be great if the quality of questions were better and less frequent (a folorn hope I know).

[alchemy] 27/6/2018 08:41

Target date the Chinese had for their graphene centre.

[superg1] 27/6/2018 08:39

Andy

I'm doing it for Newbies.

You may be aware of late reports and I have done some recent posts on it.

A market maker simply picks up stock from sellers and tries to sell it for a higher price.

EG if you are sat as the best bid (buying MM) you make pick up 50k shares at say 108p, then decide 50k is the limit at which point you'll come off the bid and onto the offer and say 110p.

In that move the share price drops as the 108p bid has gone and whoever as below that now becomes the bid price.

Singer for weeks have at times clearly not been selling stock they picked up from the normal PIs sellers. It gets well beyond what they picked up yet they don't move off the offer.

Then they may take it down below where they ever were on the offer, with no market pressure/action to do so.

That's a tell tale sign they have picked up stock form a seller which has yet to be reported. We have seen that many times here in recent weeks.

It has already happened with Singer this week.

Late yesterday Singer were on the bid briefly at the end of the day and wouldn't have picked up much stock having obviously run out of the behind the scenes stock they picked up.

Hence this morning if it started with buys I would expect singer to move off the offer quickly if all they had was PI sells yesterday they picked up. If they stayed there with plenty of buying then it may indicate they picked up some from the supplier. Then if they jumped over anyone on the offer, EG offer a better price that would further indicate more late reports to come.

As it stands today sells came in, MMs flipped off the bid with the stock to the offer and hence the share price falls. Singer very briefly stepped over them all, little happened and they returned to 110p in quick time.

My point is as it stands in recent days and weeks the actions of singer can give PIs an advantage in understanding whether stock has been provided by the big seller.

If Singer stop that for any number of days and no other MMs replace them, then it could indicate the supply is done, but in any case if that happened the share price would have bounced already.

So when the current seller\s is done it will bounce well and as it stands through various small short punts that would mean 100's pdf 1000's of shares being bought by those short.

If it runs out and news comes then back off north quickly.

[ellissj] 27/6/2018 08:30

I was very pleased with neills update re china news on a recent podcast. 5/6 provinces and the issues that still need resolving. Very honest, let's face it - especially for Aim. It's an obviously huge opportunity and i admire how it's being handled. In my view, the long term interest of the company. And so, patiently waiting here. In the last podcast, i was pleased to hear neill provide his ambition of building the company up. All reassuring for shareholders. Has my vote of confidence and thanks. Aimo. Best ellis.