Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 06/4/2017 07:54

I have put the radio interview at the top of the header it can be trawl through and pause etc so useful to newbies as a quick explanation of what GNPs can do.

[spike_1] 06/4/2017 07:47

Re - getting level two on ADVFN. If you don't need FTSE 100 in real time you can save quite a lot of £ per anum (well over £100 from memory), likewise U.S. real time.

If you go for the long term offer i.e. 1 year for (I think) 10 months, it will renew annually automatically, which is useful as it keeps continuity as you won't know your year has expired until the day it doesn't work, which can be a bore with 8a.m. comming up.

The obvious downside is remembering to cancel if you want to.

Best wishes - Mike

[superg1] 06/4/2017 07:13

Just so you know The CEO is here today at an event



That's the one where only a few companies are selected to present/speak and VRS/2D tech are one of them. Williams are there too.

[superg1] 06/4/2017 07:02

It used to be called bed and breakfast pre AIMs allowed in ISAs. But as you can see anything beyond Isa limits would mean the 30 days rules kicks in.

EG if you sold your shares on 7th March to utilise the CGT for the year you wouldn't be able to buy then back until 30 days had past.

Bed and ISA is simply a transfer from one account to the other at the same time but via the market. No doubt as it was realised it was an earner it gets via the market instead of an internal fee to flip shares into your ISA

So the B and B rule as below of sell and wait for 30 days ended yesterday and generally everyone waits the full tax year before doing it again as until then you don't know your CGT circs.

Bed & Breakfasting
The “same day” and 30 day “bed and breakfasting” rules were designed specifically to stop investors manipulating their Capital Gains Tax liabilities by disposing of shares and buying them back shortly afterwards for the purpose of realising a capital gain free of tax (because eg it is covered by the annual exempt amount) or a capital loss (which can be set off against chargeable gains to reduce a tax liability) while still, in effect, holding on to the investment. The effect of the rules means that in situations where shares in a company are sold and repurchased shortly afterwards, the capital gain or loss is calculated as though the shares disposed of are those acquired either the same day or within in the 30 day period following the disposal. In such circumstances, the price received on the disposal is generally similar to the price paid shortly afterwards to repurchase the shares. As a result of the rules, any gain or loss arising on the disposal is then likely to be small.

[superg1] 06/4/2017 06:53

ax

It used to be an issue but it's a share transfer now. But it's still a buy and sell which cancel each other out.

However this will have been done pre April 6th. The issue lies in normal accounts using up the CGT for the year over and above ISA rates especially where you may have had losses elsewhere. So some would use any losses they have to maximise profit allowance on others.
That all tends to happen in the run up to April 6th not at the start of the tax year which is today.


A web explanation

A bed and ISA is a pair of deals where an investment is sold in a dealing account and bought in an ISA. The two transactions are carried out together so there is less exposure to market movement.

So they are carried out at the same time but obviously the market/stockbroker likes it slice so there are some charges involved but less so than if you had to buy then sell doing it manually yourself.

The old systems to crystallise tax gains/losses was 30 days, so you had to sell and wait 30 days before you could buy them back.

I assume that still exists for levels beyond ISA limits but as said takes place pre tax year end to get that years allowance. So typically the disruption on non isa comes before April 6th not on after that date..

[rogerbridge] 06/4/2017 01:20

Thanks SG. Looking in from Taipei.

[axotyl] 05/4/2017 21:39

Question - is Bed and ISA and/or the start of new ISA year going to distort the opening price tomorrow?

Anyone got a sensible strategy?

[axotyl] 05/4/2017 21:37

Thanks, superg1, for the explanation - really helpful.

Incidentally, being interested in Level 2 information, I clicked Level 2 at the top of this page. That took me through to a Live Chat, and I asked about any trial or special offers. He was very helpful, and directed me to another page, which had a free month's trial for April, for Level 2. Sounds great, but then it disappeared (link wasn't compatible with Chrome).

Tried IE, got through to the offer, but it disappeared again.

Live Chat guy said no problem, he'd send me an email link, but nothing's turned up so far.

Anyone else had any success with Level 2 trial?

Apologies, superg1, didn't want to interrupt....

[superg1] 05/4/2017 19:48

I don't fully get it but have seen it enough times before.

In auction you can't run the price up or down it sticks within the bid and offer.

So if you have 10 bid and 11 offer everyday I have watched it stays that way and the auction closes at 4.35pm with nothing happening.

But what you get instead of the MM codes is LSE which I take as direct market access.

So as soon as it closes to us up pops the LSE bids for 11p which matches the offer, EG if there were 27k on the offer and 17k crossed on the bid as described then the Uncrossing trade (UT) would show as 17k as all they wanted were available.

If the offer was just 10k available the UT and 17k came over the top then the UT would be 10k as only 10k were available.

So in short the bid folk came over the top and took 28k plus in the trade off the MMs on the offer.

It could have been an end of day tidy up BUT there were some LSE bids on the bid but off the price earlier and I saw a glimpse of such bids in days recently.

Typically it can mean a buyer in the background or on the offer a seller. So far it's been all on the bid side.

Just trying to level it up for us PIs.

What I do know is that in my bed isa attempt I couldn't get an offer even for 10k shares on the system in the 10 minutes before close. So to me in reality it seems shares in that Bid/offer range shown were not really available if they were I should have got a quote.

Did anyone else try and fail near the close.

[handygandhi] 05/4/2017 18:25

Ditto superg1

[abergele] 05/4/2017 18:07

thanks for the explanation superg1. much appreciated

[superg1] 05/4/2017 18:04

Sorry corrected now to Shoc which is the code for the MM on level 2.

They had stock showing but although I stayed within the number I couldn't get a quote.

Then for the first time ever in the end of day auction that I have seen on VRS bids came over the top of the price.

Hence the 28k uncrossing trade at 27p which is what the bids were at which was above both the offer and mid price.

Generally to me that means a buyer in the background I've seen it on other shares. We'll have to wait and see as time goes on.

If you don't get level 2 but want to know it's gone on watch for a UT trade at 4.35pm when the auction closes.

They only happen if either someone comes onto the bid over the price on close or a seller comes on the the offer price etc etc.

[axotyl] 05/4/2017 17:53

Who or what is Shock, Superg?

[superg1] 05/4/2017 16:42

I've been forced into a reverse of bed and isa today as the primarybid shares have yet to arrive.

So it looks like it will be an ISA add without the bed bit now. I know the cash just has to be there BTW but couldn't resist testing them end of day.

Those tinker MMs show stock available but the computer says NO.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 16:37

So Shoc are advertising 10k but turn it down when you try to get them, I thought they had to honour it if they list it and now in action bids are 27.5 from some.


And there goes the crossing trade as a result.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 16:27

Hmmm

Tried some dummy buys and can't get 10k shares at this price.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 15:22

I looked at them way back but more about palm oil/drilling fluids. I wasn't interested in the graphene there and I'm still not. I think they were adding it into the fluids but that would be many 100's of layers graphite no doubt just as a lubricant.

I turned and ignored that one long long ago.

[handygandhi] 05/4/2017 14:43

I had them on my watch list, but wasn't overwhelmed with the Malaysian interest, then came Darwin . . . . .

[superg1] 05/4/2017 14:38

Handy

It was all over the place due to Darwin cash. If you are knocking on Darwins door it means the rest of the market told you to sod off.

Then comes the warrant game of forward selling, since and repeat. So it's probably enhanced by that. So Darwin not selling, stock short so it flies then you have the flier chasers joining in.

If Darwin have any left to exercise it will crash back, folk then take profits and others on highs are forced sellers. Darwin exploit that game on many shares.

[handygandhi] 05/4/2017 14:33

Pump and Dump occurring with GRPH, I reckon.
People will get caught out on the graphene/BBC hype.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 14:31

Ha

You couldn't resist.

I did see your missed the boat post. If they hit sales it has a long way north to go from here imo, other factors could feature too.

Some go on about sales but the launch of the products stage has only just started. The sales office only set up in the last week or so.

Ink looks exciting on it's own. Quite a considerable breakthrough that and ready to go.

[festario] 05/4/2017 14:12

One of the trades at 27.1 was a buy, ... my Buy!

[meijiman] 05/4/2017 14:07

Isn't it amazing that Neil Ricketts was 'let go' by Elektron when he is doing a great job. Elektron is run by two of the biggest duffers you could ever meet. What a strange world.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 14:05

Rid

He has been a success most places he has been and having seen some poor decisions above him which have ruined a good business, he decided to do it himself with his own business.

He seems to have made some very savvy decisions on which businesses to pursue with VRS, slotting some long established businesses underneath with premises equipment and staff skills to fit.