Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[festario] 05/4/2017 14:12

One of the trades at 27.1 was a buy, ... my Buy!

[meijiman] 05/4/2017 14:07

Isn't it amazing that Neil Ricketts was 'let go' by Elektron when he is doing a great job. Elektron is run by two of the biggest duffers you could ever meet. What a strange world.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 14:05

Rid

He has been a success most places he has been and having seen some poor decisions above him which have ruined a good business, he decided to do it himself with his own business.

He seems to have made some very savvy decisions on which businesses to pursue with VRS, slotting some long established businesses underneath with premises equipment and staff skills to fit.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 14:00

Thanks Tim

I was just going by the coincidence of URU getting hit and the MM going off the bid which tended to suggest sells.

Mind you since when as what they suggest is happening is reality.

[tim3416] 05/4/2017 13:55

SG, I fairly sure all those trades at 27.10 were buys as that was the price being quoted to me to buy at those times

[ridicule] 05/4/2017 13:52

Hi ! I spoke to NR this morning, who advised on the Carbide sales to Renishaw but nothing yet on Graphene. NR is, as expected, on top of his game.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 13:41

The flurry of small sells in the last hour.

You know me and my spread bet gripes. I have been tracking what happens on URU as I note the odd link in investors now and then.

So when I saw the URU news and dip I expected some margin calls on URU and sure enough a tickle of activity on selling on VRS (and others no doubt).

That's gamblers for you and SBs they don't have the cash to cover their call.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 13:37

I'm not sure they do as yet. On that scale the UOM could simply do their own. GO is a different tech and not few layer reliant.

[phoenixs] 05/4/2017 13:11

thanks metis20,

Very impressive, Lots going on and it appears that the orders will not be long coming and maybe a load of them,

[festario] 05/4/2017 12:59

If only I'd listened to you on PRG SuperG, I'd have saved £46k.However, my lesson learned from IOF is to (try and) get in early, and sell whilst in moderate profit.AIM is not here for our benefit.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 12:56

Sorry to waffle on about AGM that's it from me but I've had friends completely screwed by AIM companies before where I tried to warn them.
I never know who is in or not as not all post.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 11:23

So AGM and the lies

Do the maths. I haven't checked to see if they were 1 tonne capacity by this news or 1.5 tonnes but it matters not.

Sept 2015

More evaluation quantities were provided in the final quarter of the financial year than during the previous nine months combined;

-- Two full week periods of 24 hour continuous running have been undertaken to support customer demands for graphene;



Media news

In September last year, AGM revealed it was carrying out 24-hour production to meet higher international demand, with two weeks of continuous work getting more than 120 samples out to clients.

So sample levels means high prices paid per gram.


I don't believe capacity was calculated on running 24/7 365 but again it matters not when you work it out.

Elsewhere in results they said that work covered 3/4 of sales revenue which was £70k total.

That would put it at 52k for that 2 weeks production 24 hours per day.

Assuming the they did mean 1 tonne 24/7 365 then that means in those 2 weeks they should have produced 38 kgs.

So that would mean they sold for £1+ per gram.

VRS samples sell for £400 per gram and rumour had it that early AGM stuff went for £1000 per gram.

£52 at £400 per gram = 130 grams.

So that would mean roughly a 1 gram sample to each buyer which is plenty enough for evaluation as it would fill a coffee mug.

In theory 130 grams produced in 336 hours.

Less than .5 grams per hour.

So you see the 1 tonne capacity is just that CAPACITY. It doesn't work and they say so in their results each year.

IT's currently a company with nothing than an idea that has so far failed very badly and if they don't sort it out investors are going to lose their money.... all of it as AGM have nothing else other than that tech.

Hence I hope for investors sake they have sorted it out but I see no reason why after 5 years of failure that it's suddenly been sorted.

GL those in AGM you are going to need it.

I'm not going to engage on the AGM thread anymore I have tried to warn them and they don't listen. I have other plans now.

I genuinely hope AGM get the tech sorted for investors but I think there is a slim chance.

Right warning done and if results are poor (they should be), watch this space. NOTE AGM hype it up so you are unlikely to see any admission or hint of failure.

Ignoring all the above £52k on samples which carry the premium price from running 24/7 for 2 weeks.

Wage bill approx £3.5 mill (haven't got a full year for the 42 staff yet). 2 week wages cost £135,000 before other costs.

On previous results of 33 staff the average wage came out around £70k to £75k. But with that average and 3 salary sapping big managers recently brought it 3.5 mill for a full year on wages won't be far off.

Gawd knows what they are paying below BOD level but FFS the average pay is mad.

[timbo003] 05/4/2017 11:03

superg

agreed, providing its qualified, to be more accurate:

GNPs don't need additional functionalisation for basic dispersion providing they get partly functionalised with oxygen in the production process as per the Versarian production process

[skylite] 05/4/2017 10:50

Strange Rid; when I spoke to NR he showed me a product they made for Renishaw.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 10:48

Rid

They sell some parts to Renishaw from Total Carbide a measuring device, I've seen the part.

[leeshindig] 05/4/2017 10:46

this will be near 2 quid in a year.

[timbo003] 05/4/2017 10:30

Superg

Reagarding the Oxygen / GO question (post 3271)

That answer is the same answer I got at the Shares Mag meeting (which I published here), do you believe me now?

[handygandhi] 05/4/2017 10:22

Motley Fool's comments.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 10:22

I'm doing this as I fear some may be in AGM and I'm waiting for they next results which I hope gives good evidence that their tech works.

As you can see from my last few posts. It is not proven they have achieved nothing of what they hoped to do on production.

They say so each year that they haven't proved it works. The tech is 5 years on and it doesn't seem to work.

Now off to find the news that shows you how poor the tech is on production. They were stupid to list that for someone watching like me.

[ridicule] 05/4/2017 10:17

I agree I need to speak to the CEO SG, I was at Renishaw yesterday listening to Sir David Mc Murtry and being taken round their innovation Centre. I did not put the question straight to Sir David, but I did ask one of his senior managers if they knew of Versarien who are just up the road at Cheltenham. He had not heard of them!

Given the space Renishaw occupy, I cannot believe that VRS sales have not been all over them. I intend to write to Neil with a Renishaw contact.

My point about gaining metris on VRS was not doubting what their potential was as you infer in your response, it was about metricating that potential which is what all very sound investing must eventually be based on.

One way I have derived some comfort is to hypothesise. There are 131.33 million shares in issue. Lets hypothesise a profit of £10 million within 2 years. This would produce an eps of 7.61p, assuming no more dilution, giving a pe of 3.94 if the share price was 30p. This would clearly be ludicrously low and a share price nearer or over £1 would be feasible.

The biggest unknown is whether they can move to a profit of £10 million within their current cashflow planning. That is why we need early sight of sales and customer agreements.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 10:16

AGM admission document.

The tech was created in 2010 and the funding partner was one of the large holders who coughed up some cash in 2012.

So what they said back then

"Currently, the Group has a plant with a nameplate capacity of one tonne of graphene nanoplatelets"

So that was pre float. 1 tonne capacity.

They said this (8 tonnes) which has never happened.

The Directors believe that the Group has the capability to expand this capacity in line with demand by adding additional modular units over the next two to three years to create a production capacity of up to eight tonnes per annum. The Directors intend that a proportion of the proceeds of the Placing will be applied towards such purpose.

They also said

the Group would intend to develop a larger capacity unit in the range of 30-50 tonnes per annum.

which was all BS too, it's never happened.

And if you want to know how incompetent they are look at this (well done Singer)

"In the UK, the only competitors that the Directors are aware of who are manufacturing graphene nanoplatelets are Haydale Limited"

Haydale do not and freely admit they do not manufacture GNPs.

read this bit

1.8 Existing capacity and proposed scaling up of production
Whilst the Group’s existing nameplate production capacity is approximately one tonne per annum, the Group has not operated the production facility for a whole calendar year. Although the Directors believe that the Group will be able to produce one tonne of graphene per annum, there is no certainty that this will be achieved.
It is the Group’s intention to scale up the existing production facility in order to increase output to approximately 8 tonnes and then potentially up to 50 tonnes per annum


more in a minute

[phoenixs] 05/4/2017 10:04

superg1, which is why VRS is a completely different business to AGM. It is very important that the orders follow in the not too distant future.

Let us not forget the carbide business which brings in revenue and hopefully will also expand in the future.

[superg1] 05/4/2017 09:57

I'm passionate at doing my best to protect PIs from dodgy looking companies. All things can not be found and covered, black swans as scruts would say.

AGM just happens to be on my radar for graphene and imo it's a shocker lifestyle hype company imo.

If the tech worked then all well and good but even then reports say that type of tech is expensive on costs.

I'll pop back with the proof from AGM's own news. They can't argue with the truth hence I can freely trash them, someone needs to warn PIs imo.

I stop short of getting Tom W to do it.