Trakm8 Share Discussion Threads

[axdelta] 03/10/2020 20:26

Trakm8fan: Sorry but I share andre’s view.

[trakm8fan] 03/10/2020 18:05

Axdelta - hopefully you can see past the endless negative comments from the handful of fierce bears here to see that they are unwilling to admit that the answer is No there are no other companies in this market who provide all of the same or similar things to Trakm8. This is a clear differentiator. You can decide if this is meaningful or not. The bears will tell you it is not relevant - obviously.

[andre] 03/10/2020 13:47

The answer is that many companies in the market sell the stuff that there is actually a demand for.

More importantly, many of those companies make a profit.

Trak, on the other hand, has a history of device issues, loss making and busy fool business.

Those are the only facts that matter. IMHO.

[trakm8fan] 03/10/2020 13:22

Andre - perhaps this is language you will understand - which other company or companies can provide all of the products which Trakm8 can - camera system which can monitor the road ahead and also the driver's face to look for things like aggression and exhaustion - route optimisation - a breakdown type package or vehicle health - and lets not forget the boring tracking, driver behaviour, speeding, hard braking etc etc etc

[andre] 03/10/2020 11:10

trakm8Fan - that’s like saying ‘who else sells this exact range of sausage rolls’ as Greggs.

If the sausage rolls aren’t selling or are selling at a loss or they are selling a million but making 0.01p on each whilst risking food poisoning customers.... that’s not a good reason to like them.

🤣

[trakm8fan] 03/10/2020 10:53

axdelta asked - What can they provide that others can’t? I've given the list which you can dismiss as failing or not working or not making money. But its still the list and its factual. I don't believe anyone else can provide all of those and so far no onehas offered an example of another who can. And clearly some companies are buying their products. Not as many and not as quickly as I would like but they are buying them. These are facts.

[6jacko] 02/10/2020 22:18

Fully agree Andre.

Does the tech work- no! Does the tech constantly fail- yes! Is the tech any different to anyone else’s- no!
Have The algorithm people cornered the optimisation market- yes!

Watkins is 67 and wants out 2 years max. How do I know? He told me personally. Mark not suitable for CEO position hence Mansfield brought in. Fat wAtkins not liked or respected for his incompetence and repeat tech failings.

[andre] 02/10/2020 21:55

trakm8Fan - To your first question - yes. Multiple suppliers offer versions of this. Route optimisation is pretty standard across the industry with literally dozens of others offering it. Breakdown stuff for the AA is busy fools business. Low margin, high maintenance.

Cutting edge they are not. As a business that fails to make profits of any note, its a bad bet. All IMHO of course.

[trakm8fan] 02/10/2020 21:22

Axdelta - does anyone else offer an integrated camera based system which can monitor the road ahead and also the driver's face to look for things like aggression and exhaustion - does anyone else offer the route optimisation stuff - does anyone else have a breakdown type package - what made it compelling enough to interest the likes of AA - while I dont think they need to be bleeding edge to succeed the above sounds impressive enough to me

[axdelta] 01/10/2020 20:32

The reasons this share is so low are: Poor financial performance and they are never viewed as “cutting edge”. They need to be better than their competitors. What can they provide that others can’t?

[michaelmouse] 29/9/2020 07:43

AA's interims this morning:-

"The roll-out of Smart Breakdown, our premium connected car offering, was affected by lockdown. Despite this, over 10,000 new and existing customers have Smart Breakdown and we are encouraged by the take up rates in our digital channels. Looking ahead, we will continue to build the base of new and existing customers who are connected through Smart Breakdown, whilst continually refining and optimising the customer experience."

At the end of January it was 4500 (AA's final results) so that's pretty good going adding another 5500 with 3 months of "lockdown".

[michaelmouse] 25/9/2020 18:37

Always a consideration Trakm8 fan i.e. will he want to sell the business within 5 years.

I had similar thoughts about Avesco and it was sold at a huge premium:-



I'm not suggesting that parallels exist in the two situations (From recollection I think Murray was sadly quite ill??), but both were/are ageing Directors with very large shareholdings. Murray's holding was larger than Watkins though at around 30%.

[trakm8fan] 25/9/2020 16:55

michaelmouse - What's your view on JW's age. I guess he is knocking on a bit now but don't know his age. I'm sure he is fine and dandy but 5 years is a long time and anything could happen.

[michaelmouse] 24/9/2020 17:02

An update on the 5 micro-caps to multi-bag!!

[trakm8fan] 18/9/2020 16:39

Andre - everyone is you, blonde and jacko. You have your opinion and I have mine. If Trakm8 can start shipping 10000 of these a week for ins co business which they only keep for around 12 months then they will make good money. You keep harping on about thin margins. Yes yes yes we know you think this. You believe it is not profitable. Got it. You don't seem to understand simple maths. If they are only just net break even today and they start shipping more and more ins co black boxes then they will make more money. If the margins are thin, they might be and they might not be we don't know, but I will play along. If the margins are thin then guess what they need to do - ship lots. So if they can start shipping lots will they make money? How can they possibly start shipping lots, Perhaps sign up more ins cos. Oh wait they have. The volumes are not there right now, Yes we know because kids are not taking their driving tests - do you want to say thats untrue or are you happy to accept that as true. Fast forward a few months to when kids are taking their tests - will volumes increase? You will say no and the margins are too thin. I say the opposite. I say they are around break even today so if they ship more and more ins co black boxes on whatever the margin is they make more money. They are covering their costs now so any extra revenue will add more and more to profit. I have been saying these for 2 years on here. Everyone - you, blonde and jacko has been saying they will go bust. The insurance co deals where made up and would never ship but look now they are shipping and they are increasing the number of ins co they deal with. More ins cos, more volumes, more recurring revenue, more more more. That is the growth story here. Same story from me. Not changed my view. Will keep telling my story.

[andre] 18/9/2020 16:03

trakM8Fan - I’m guessing your sarcasm is due to being proven less informed after all.

Nobody is disputing that they have been shipping these for months. Nor should anyone be denying issues with the units or their real world suitability for the purpose. I’ve said before that insurance telematics isn’t about the data in reality. It is about customer retention on the part of insurers. It doesn’t really matter much to insurers as long as it sort of works a bit. They care only at renewal time. And young people very often shop around because they know that they will be screwed if they don’t. That doesn’t mean Trak don’t have to send out new units though, on their dime.

What everyone (but you) seems to agree on is that relying on thin margin insurance business to prop up an ailing fleet business is bad business, period. The reasons have all been explained. But there’s non so blind, apparently.

[trakm8fan] 18/9/2020 14:52

Andre - Trakm8 have been shipping OBD boxes like this for many many years. Nothing new here. That is the point I am making. If you have only just realised this then it is you who is ignorant. All these black box manufacturers are facing the same dilemma. You can send an engineer with a spirit level but that costs money. If Trakm8 did that you would say they are crazy right?

[andre] 18/9/2020 13:36

Trakm8Fan - now who is showing their ignorance?

OBD telematics is not a good idea for all the points I’ve mentioned previously. This is not about kids trying it on. It is about the fact that OBD ports are not built for telematics use.

As for insurance companies paying again when hardware fails... think again.

We are talking about margins and busy fools. If Trak are banking their future on this ( because their fleet stuff isn’t great (it isn’t), then thin margin, ‘make it work against the vehicle port design’ isn’t smart.

[trakm8fan] 18/9/2020 13:08

dave2608 - The box sent out is faulty and the customer is expected to pay a second time? Is that what you're saying? I am saying it is not impossible yes. You are shipping black box / big brother boxes to kids who just passed their test. Some of these kids might not want them. Some of these kids might think they can be clever. Some of these kids might try to play the faulty card right? Do you think Trakm8 will test the boxes before they are shipped? Do you think Trakm8 and any of the other black box companies shipping these out in high volumes in the post to kids who don't want them would do so on the basis that if one of them said oh it's faulty then they would swallow the cost and just send another? I agree that's a bad business plan. Maybe Trakm8 don't do that. Maybe they charge the ins co again. Why do you assume it would be one way and not the other? These deals are partnerships. They have to work for both parties. Direct Line have been in Partnership with Trakm8 for years and years. Why is this suddenly a discussion topic. More mud throwing but I dont see any sticking yet. Keep throwing.

[dave2608] 18/9/2020 12:21

Cashflow rubbish / outlook rubbish / answers to questions fielded at the AGM rubbish/ Mark's diet rubbish / treatment of staff??

[trakm8fan] 18/9/2020 11:56

Andre - you say you are not an expert but then rant on about an accelerometer. Either you are or you aren't. Decide which it is. Trakm8 have been shipping these self fit devices for 4 or 5 years for insurance use. Direct Line have been using them for 4 or 5 years. But they have not figured out this slight flaw because they have not got anyone working there who is genius enough to figure it out. They need a Jacko of their own perhaps. In fact I am surprised Direct Line isn't failing as a business. Why do I get the impression you are just throwing mud at the wall and seeing if any sticks. As soon as we have debunked the installation fee problem the hardware becomes fundamentally flawed. More mud throwing. Have you got anything new to add or is this just going round in circles - tech rubbish / business rubbish / management rubbish / margins rubbish / business plan rubbish / reputation rubbish / reliability rubbish.

[dave2608] 18/9/2020 10:38

90-day ‘correction window'

[6jacko] 18/9/2020 10:25

Great posts Dave and Andre. As you said Mark churned out quickly and cheaply hence the fact the failure rate is so high and Trak has a reputation for unreliable overheating tech. Getting customers yes but keeping them is a different story. Guess that’s why the churn is so high. As you said fleet volumes were high last year, Mansfield’s strategy sucks. The AGM is usual old mans Watkins spin on the truth. As a leader in telematics my money is better invested in another player than Trak. Only a matter of time before the bump or carted off to prison. See most sales staff who strongly reacted to working on furlough all been given the boot. Disgusting behaviour but not unexpected!

[dave2608] 18/9/2020 10:06

Good post Andre and it questions the validity of black boxes for insurance purposes. Imagine if you regularly have to travel down a road full of speed bumps. Most people speed up a little or a lot and slow down at the bumps. I'm assuming this would trigger off harsh braking events? If so then I guess you'd have to drive at snail's pace to avoid this happening?