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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Trakm8 Holdings Plc LSE:TRAK London Ordinary Share GB00B0P1RP10 ORD 1P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.0% 17.50 17.00 18.00 17.50 17.50 17.50 1,198 08:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Technology Hardware & Equipment 19.6 -1.7 -2.2 - 9

Trakm8 Share Discussion Threads

Showing 7001 to 7021 of 7225 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
18/11/2020
06:30
trakm8Fan - the insurance game is simple for insurance companies. Pay as little as possible to the tracking provider. Con the customer into believing they will get cheaper insurance next year by driving a certain way which reduces risk. Then offer them a discount next year which isn’t actually competitive in the market but easier than shopping around. Acquiring a new customer is more expensive then keeping one on. Many people are too lazy to shop around every year. That’s essentially it. They use the tracker to keep a customer and reduce risk. They pay the provider as little as possible and there is no differentiation. This is why Quartix are leaving the market. The race to the bottom is over. There’s no money in it now. Trak, on the other hand, think more units at no profit is the future. All IMHO
andre
18/11/2020
03:50
Blonde - no not ignoring trying to get the numbers to add up. Recurring is £40 per connection per year average. Which is close to £3. There is still the 10m none recurring which when added makes the number £80 per connection overall. I admit its possible they are selling these to ins companies at £3 per month and that feels very cheap to me. We know they're only just breaking even now. Their volumes definitely need to increase if they're going to make money and they need to increase quickly. I'm not sure that's true that Trakm8 doesn't do anything that others do. Yes you could argue for basic tracking its possible there is no difference. But when an ins co buys a service like this they're buying more than just the tracker. We know by miles use these trackers and we know there has been some talk about real odo from trakm8 being a differentiator for leasing companies. Beyond the basic tracker the only other areas which could interest ins companies is the way they can integrate their systems to work with the systems of Trakm8. Im still hopeful there are some differences other than price but now I'll be accused of ramping again which I'm not trying to do. I read on the lse board that someone bought insurance through by miles and didn't receive a Trakm8 tracker but another. So its not all roses yes I know that. Maybe I am deluded. Maybe I am blinkered. Maybe I will be wrong. I'm still hoping they make money. Come on Trakm8.
trakm8fan
17/11/2020
21:25
Charge for devices? As Blondeamon has constantly pointed out, there is no up front charge for devices. You rent them.
dave2608
17/11/2020
21:18
"non-recurring revenue = Charge for devices plus installation costs. That's it." Oh really? You can buy an RH600 on line. How does that fit into your equation?
dave2608
17/11/2020
21:03
post 5433 - LOL. That's not how it works at all dave. It's ever so simple. As I said before in simple terms 1) recurring revenue = installed device monthly charges (service) (insurance and fleet) 2) non-recurring revenue = Charge for devices plus installation costs. That's it. The cost of the devices might be spread over a contract period, but it's a finite cost and recognized as such in the accounts i.e. non-recurring.
michaelmouse
17/11/2020
20:51
Fair play to you trakm8Fan. By being a dog with a bone you've flushed out some insight.
dave2608
17/11/2020
19:45
Dave - you're right it is 40 per year. I can't afford a new calculator. I'm skint.
trakm8fan
17/11/2020
19:40
Acknowledging squeamish's insight let's do a revised calculation from the one the other night for Trak's fleet connections. £9.8 million / 77,000 / 12 = £10.60 per connection per month, not far short of Quartix's £12.50 a month. The bad news is that Trak's fleet connections have shrunk since the year end.
dave2608
17/11/2020
19:06
Andre- fully agree what Trakm8 could do and become with the right CEO, we know that’s the issue here. How right QTX got it and how wrong Trak did
6jacko
17/11/2020
18:55
MM - on what possible basis does Quartix making Trak look inept indicate that Trak could be bought at a premium. You don’t pay a premium for ineptitude. Much more likely that the administrators will sell it to whoever is happy to take on a loss making enterprise - even if debts get written off in the process. IMHO
andre
17/11/2020
18:40
squeamish1 - am I the fan boy? If so let me reply. Thanks for the explanation. That's very helpful. It does indeed answer the question I have been asking. If this business is moving to a pure saas recurring fee only model then this explains why they have an extra 10m of revenue. I am not saying a larger amount of none recurring revenue is preferable if it comes at the expense of guaranteed recurring revenue. Not at all. What I am trying to argue against is the flood of comments from all the bears here who are adamant that the recurring fees here are only £3 or £4 per month including the hardware. I still don't know if this is true or not. As in if there is no up front fee and it is all fixed recurring fees only. Apparently the bears know there is no initial fee on top of the recurring fees. What we do know for a fact is they have 250000 connections and receive 10m in recurring revenue. That equates to an average of £80 per connection per year. From your explanation there may be more revenue included in the chargeable recurring fees which is not accounted in the 10m recurring revenue. This therefore means the real average of recurring fee per connection must be more than £80 per connection per year. Thats great news. It definitely makes the £3 and £4 per month numbers look very unlikely.
trakm8fan
17/11/2020
18:19
Mouse People say things to you but you never seem to take heed. I'll repeat, I'm not suggesting anyone invests in Quartix. I'm not even remotely considering it myself. "Share price up 7% today. Small volumes move it very quickly indeed.".....ramp to add to your earlier one.
dave2608
17/11/2020
18:16
You buy the safe QTX option then dave. I think Trakm8 have a great chance of getting it right from here, and if not they'll almost certainly be bought out at a large premium. Share price up 7% today. Small volumes move it very quickly indeed.
michaelmouse
17/11/2020
18:04
Oh something I forgot to mention. Quartix have £10 million in the bank and no debt.
dave2608
17/11/2020
17:57
MichaelMouse You're jumping the gun. I'm not for one second suggesting anyone invests in Quartix. I'm pointing out the massive outporformance of Quartix over Trakm8. "If Trakm8 get it right from here". You kidding? Will they get the chance? It looks like it's all hands to the deck to me trying to keep the ship afloat.
dave2608
17/11/2020
17:44
Quartix have been well run for a long time. They've been in the market for a long time, 20 years or so. It does go to show what can be done with the right leadership..... and what happens when you don't have the right people in charge. And no, trakm8Fan, it doesn't show what Trak can do. It does show what they are clearly incapable of doing though with the leadership they have. Leopards don't change their spots. IMHO
andre
17/11/2020
17:40
Thanks Dave, if QTX was valued at £7.75m I'd buy QTX instead, but it isn't. QTX's market cap. at £171m is currently around 22 times larger than Trakm8's at £7.75m. It's also worth noting that QTX have a greater international presence in Fleet and their UK growth is not quite as impressive albeit still better than Trak's. Trak is still largely UK centric. QTX is the safer option for sure because it's consistently profitable and generates lots of FCF to pay dividends. Perhaps it's a matter of different investment philosophies? Trakm8 is clearly the riskier option but that's already reflected in the share price. If Trakm8 get it right from here and eventually perform like QTX (market cap. £171m) then you'll have a 22-bagger. For a similar share price performance QTX would need to achieve a market cap. of £3.7 billion. Imv Trakm8's likelihood of huge multi-bagging (again) is more likely than QTX's, but of course that comes with the inherent risks. You may disagree and prefer a safer option that's your prerogative.
michaelmouse
17/11/2020
16:55
I've just been looking at Quartix's finals. It bears out what squeamish is saying. 81% of their revenue is fleet. 100% of their recurring revenue is fleet. They had £20.5 million of recurring revenue y/e 2019. 123,157 fleet connections at the start of the year; 150,640 at the end. Let's take a midway figure of 136,900. £20,500,000 / 136,900 / 12 = £12.50 each fleet device per month. So yes fleet is where the money is. Looking at Quartix's fleet connections shows how they've absolutely smashed Trakm8. Remember these are two revenue similar companies operating in basically the same field. Quartix fleet connections y/e Dec 2015 - 73,744 Dec 2016 - 87,889 Dec 2017 - 105,314 Dec 2018 - 123,157 Dec 2019 - 150,640 Currently 167,635 Trakm8 fleet connections - y/e March 2016 - 59,000 March 2017 - 66,000 March 2018 - 73,000 March 2019 - 76,000 March 2020 - 77,000 Currently 70,000 In more or less the same time period Quartix have gone from 73,744 to 167,635 fleet connections while Trak have gone from 59,000 to 70,000. On the 1st Jan 2016, Quartix's share price stood at 252.50p; it is now 352p. Trak's was 356p; it is now 15p. In the last four years Quartix has paid out 49.5p in dividends (y/e 2016: 11.2p, 2017: 13.5p, 2018: 12.4p, 2019: 12.4p). They've paid out over 3 times the current share price of Trak in dividends!!
dave2608
17/11/2020
16:50
To really know what the situation is you would need to see a detailed P&L, forecast against actual on a monthly basis.
axdelta
17/11/2020
14:55
Thanks for the explanation squeamish1 and good spot re the trade receivables. So in other words, in some cases, what looks like recurring revenue, because of the way the GAAP work, is treated as non-recurring revenue?
dave2608
17/11/2020
13:21
The Saas model is not one recognised by specific accounting standards. Standard GAAP treatment is you book revenue when it becomes payable regardless of when the cash arrives. Under a contract to supply 12 months worth of data service and a device, once the device is sent you would recognise the revenue attaching it it, even if from a cash flow perspective you’ll see that revenue in the future monthly installments. So from a SAAS contract perspective the device is wrapped up in the overall package, from an accounting perspective TrakM8 couldn’t recognise the device element as ‘recurring revenue’ because, unless they expect the device to fail within 12 months (maybe they should...) that specific revenue is not recurring and must be recognised at the point of customer liability (ie when sent out). I’ve just looked at the balance sheet now vs in the pre-Saas days. It shows a marked increase in trade receivables as a proportion of revenue, from under 25% to over 40%. This tells us Trak are now booking more revenue upfront ahead of cash being received than they used to, in line with how their new model would be treated under GAAP. The more astute will notice how this model puts more stress on their working capital and cash flow and exposes them to more credit risk on their clients. Curious fanboy why you think that’s a good thing if you’re right about £10m of random fee income though? £10m of revenue they have to fight for every year, with what sales team I might add, rather than watch the money come in rain or shine.
squeamish1
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