Thomas Cook Share Discussion Threads

[nico115] 23/9/2019 15:30

When will shorts get paid out ?

[zoro9791] 23/9/2019 14:20

To much Daily Mail mate but hey ho you won get on with it.Anyway nothing to worry for them folks there are millions of factory,agricultural jobs will be avalible.They won't take anyone's jobs anymore.Winner winner chicken dinner.

[excellance] 23/9/2019 13:50

rumours of a george soros takeover, perfect fit for his own personal vanity project. Just think how many immigrants he could ferry in with all those planes ships and hotels!

[computercoders] 23/9/2019 13:49

Even if sold on Friday it's T+2 usually isn't it so if it's anything like DEBS might not get money as won't settle?

[nigelpm] 23/9/2019 13:46

Exactly Jak.

Can't just short anything with high levels of debt. That would be a very quick way to the poor house.

[lithological heterogeneities] 23/9/2019 13:41

It's not the end of the World.Just relax.Book a holiday.

[mallorca 9] 23/9/2019 13:34

nigel,

yes but the balance sheet may be re structured = D4E

They have a debt of over £1b.

[nigelpm] 23/9/2019 13:06

AA is a very different beast - and bonds have barely moved off par.

[mallorca 9] 23/9/2019 12:59

montyhedge,

I'm researching the AA again.

I don't see it going bust but I do see D4E

[lefrene] 23/9/2019 12:58

Zen12, I would guess that these are private trades between willing partners, where a short needs to buy stock to cover his position. So those funds from whom he borrowed stock for his short, will be grateful to get anything for the worthless TCG shares they still hold. So it's not a public market, but private transactions dealer to dealer.

[loglorry1] 23/9/2019 12:55

Zen the shares can still be settled at CREST. I'll buy yours for 0.1p each if you can crest settle them.

[zen12] 23/9/2019 12:52

It's complete bonkers to think shorters / hedge funds are still allowed to close their shorts? Surely if company goes bust then shares can't be traded by all..end of! so why on earth can these shorters still close but investors can't???

[montyhedge] 23/9/2019 12:30

Looking for the next short.

[hpcg] 23/9/2019 12:05

I somewhat disagree. The percentage gain from shorting a company to zero is 100%. Leverage has to be counted on top, same as for a long. What makes shorting interesting IMO is that unlike a long position one can still make 100% late in the game, if there is borrow. There is still much much more money to be made on the long side.

[sportbilly1976] 23/9/2019 11:53

cyber,

say you were short 25,000 shares at £1.50...equivalent to £250 per point

so your gain is now 150*250 = £37,500

the %age gain will depend on what margin was required...say 25% then the cash at risk was 250*150*0.25= £9,375...so your actual 'return' would be 300%

[lefrene] 23/9/2019 11:45

csm12hu, the 3.5p on Friday was simply the trading point for those wanting to gamble that the pig could actually keep flying, gambling that some entity might put up the extra £200 million contingency demanded by Lloyds and others. It will also have assisted shorters to close their positions.

It's horrible for those who have lost, now it will be of interest to see how big and deep the hole really is, and how it got to be so big and hopeless. No doubt senior managers will have taken huge risks with other peoples money, and likely have paid themselves enough compensation to make sure they are safe and comfortable if their gamble goes wrong. It went wrong, the board will not be on the street in a cardboard shelter, and very likely they will have other opportunities to destroy capital already lined up.

[ekuuleus] 23/9/2019 11:30

They settle at 0p. You could say infinite percent but I'd be more inclined to calculate it based on the capital risked. So assume £1500 on 20% margin would allow £9000. Since the price is now zero, that's £9000 profit on a principle of £1500. You should note though that losses can exceed principle. If the price increased to about £180, the principle is lost. If if gapped up to £2.10 a share, you'd owe another £1500.

More typically, it's worked out at an amount per pip or per penny but the basic principle is the same.

[cyberbub] 23/9/2019 11:16

If someone is shorting TCG from (say) 150p and they are suspended at 3p, is that the price the shorts settle at? Does that means that the shorters have made a 5,000% profit, as they bought at 3p and sold at 150p? I always get a bit confused on that point.