Taylor Wimpey Share Discussion Threads

[eeza] 17/6/2019 21:57

This is what always happens when politicos get involved. They skew the normally efficient market.

[dr_smith] 17/6/2019 21:10

I think you are right M4rtinu.
Given that supply is insufficient to meet demand it just means the buyers have bigger budgets, but it's still the same number of houses for sale. I therefore believe the Help to buy scheme does not help to buy, only help to buy at a higher price for the same stock, so builders benefit, not the buyers.
Dave

[m4rtinu] 17/6/2019 21:00

I think "those" people can't afford to purchase a house, even with, help to buy. And that help to buy has largely helped people who might have afforded to buy a house anyway.

[gbh2] 17/6/2019 20:16

It's the average wage that's rising and seeing as that includes every level of pay it's not difficult to imaging why those that actually have tom work for a living cannot afford to purchase a house without help to buy.

[m4rtinu] 17/6/2019 19:07

Anybody seen this article?

I feel sorry for younger people, in ordinary (average wage) jobs, who don't have financial support from relatives to help them buy.

Whilst wages may be rising at above inflation, income after housing costs (for a sizeable number of people) just doesn't allow them to save for a deposit.

[sidarthur2] 17/6/2019 15:04

when is the special divi landing in accounts chaps please?

[sikhthetech] 17/6/2019 13:07

steve,

"makes you wonder who is advising these buyers"...

It's part of Help 2 Buy, which house builders took advantage off...



Parliamentary document...

Housebuilder's were recommending the solicitors to use...



While developers have been accused of providing misleading sales information or
imposing onerous terms in leases, ultimately it was the responsibility of conveyancing solicitors to ensure prospective purchasers of leasehold properties were aware of the ownership structure and lease terms and their effect. It is the conveyancing solicitors, as opposed to the developers, who could be legally liable for failing to highlight these terms to prospective leaseholders. It was concerning, therefore, to hear several reports from leaseholders that they had been advised, incentivised or required by the developer to use a specific conveyancing solicitor, who subsequently did not advise them of onerous terms in their leases.

[steverabet] 17/6/2019 12:31

i live in jersey, which shares many of the uk characteristics. £500k for a modest 3 bed semi...at the heart of the matter though, these leasehold shenanigans are a symptom of a wider problem. not enough houses being built to satisfy demand, thereby keeping prices artificially aloft (in most areas)
there may be an inquiry, some finger pointing, some recommendations / codes of practice, but unless and until the next economic crisis hits (wonder what will cause that) building and selling houses is not a complicated way of making a profit

[dr_smith] 17/6/2019 11:37

"An Englishmans home is his castle".
Ownership is very much in our countries psyche, differing from many European where rent * l/h (without scamming clauses) is more common. The peoples desire for owvership, taking most until retirement to pay off mortages, is echoed by each partys policies and Bank of England, all encouraging ownership.
Yes.. solicitors should be advising and should be culpable if not emphasising the differences to "the norm". Big topic, hence media coverage.

[steverabet] 17/6/2019 11:19

it does rather come down to 'caveat emptor' - i would never buy a lease that skewered me for capital costs also - thats a fundamental. makes you wonder who is advising these buyers, or is it a case of 'thats what the market dictates - we can get away with this, so take it or leave it'
ps not & never been resident in UK so this does all seem a bit barmy to me

[sikhthetech] 17/6/2019 10:36

steve,

Agree, leasehold isn't bad but the issue here is leasehold for new build single dwellings.

In terms of exterior/structural upkeep, yes Freeholder would instruct when the work needs doing but leases usually allow for freeholder to reclaim the costs from leaseholder...
Leases also usually require the exterior to be maintained every few years.

Leases can also require the freeholder to insure the property and reclaim from the leaseholder...


If you own a new build single dwelling, would you agree that the freeholder can force you to repaint it every few years....

It's different for flats, where a freeholder can act as managing agent for common areas, fire safety etc which individual leaseholders probably wouldn't be interested in...

[dr_smith] 17/6/2019 10:28

Steve, It isn't the traditional leasehold concept (long lease low rent), it is the introduction of escalating punative rents.

> in investment terms, a leasehold only diminishes in value over time to zero,
True for commercial, but that isn't strictly true for residential leasehold, due to protective laws for tenants and why l/h becoming short can often be re-newed for a few hundred pounds.

Dave

[steverabet] 17/6/2019 10:15

just by way of idle musing, i don't see that leasehold is completely bad. presumably, the freeholder is on the hook for all exterior/structural upkeep for one thing. if you have a 100 year lease, well, you're unlikely to outlive that. yes, in investment terms, a leasehold only diminishes in value over time to zero, but if you're childless that is no great concern, and, should the government (as they surely must at some future point) start coming after homeowners to pay for their own care in old age, a leasehold with little left on it will be of no great value to be expropriated

[sikhthetech] 16/6/2019 17:28

More on Leasehold on new build single dwellings...

"While in the past leasehold properties tended to be restricted to flats, there has been a growing trend among developers to sell houses on a leasehold-basis as well."

[turvart] 15/6/2019 12:54

Hi Dave,
Thank you for your analysis I value your input.

It's quite hard for me to get a feel about this stock because I know zero about the sector but I understand fundamentals and knowing how good these fundamentals are then for me it's a strong buy.

[dr_smith] 14/6/2019 20:49

Turvart.
Is that me? I am flattered.
I am generally a LTH for stocks, working off semi predictable fundamentals rather than trying to second gues traders short term psychology.
I am heavily into UK house builders and just holding the last year or so as Brexit and Trump (and possibly world growth slow down) means market is depressed and all get caught in the cross-fire.
I think house bulders are generally under priced based on fundamentals, so therefore cannot say whether they could go lower as fundamentals are not the driving influence at present.
Personally, I am not investing extra either, merely holding, until Brexit/Trump ructions go away.
I don't invest for relatives, as wrong guesses would mean folks out of pocket, so perhaps consider pro's and cons I mention, but make your own decison on best cause of action - and of course timing for exit, be it short or long is another factor to consider on point of entry - e.g. once in, stay in for duration of any storms.
Hope that helps.
My crystal ball is going foggy now...or is it my glasses fogging up as I do the dishes. ;-)

Dave

[turvart] 14/6/2019 18:56

Dave,
Iyho do you think this could go lower? I have no experience of this stock but love the fundamentals, I'm not really into this sector but I want to accumulate my holding and welcome views from experience of investors in the housing market.

[dr_smith] 14/6/2019 18:26

Oy M4rtinu!
That's exactly what I said in my post 23081, even with the buzz word culpable.
Nice to know we're on the same wavelength. ;-)

Dave

[sikhthetech] 14/6/2019 18:00

1carus,

"You do employ a solicitor when you buy a house... the lease hold thing would be mentioned."



Parliamentary document...



Housebuilder's were recommending the solicitors to use...



While developers have been accused of providing misleading sales information or
imposing onerous terms in leases, ultimately it was the responsibility of conveyancing solicitors to ensure prospective purchasers of leasehold properties were aware of the ownership structure and lease terms and their effect. It is the conveyancing solicitors, as opposed to the developers, who could be legally liable for failing to highlight these terms to prospective leaseholders. It was concerning, therefore, to hear several reports from leaseholders that they had been advised, incentivised or required by the developer to use a specific conveyancing solicitor, who subsequently did not advise them of onerous terms in their leases.

[m4rtinu] 14/6/2019 17:56

Even to an experienced home owner, it always used to be: flat - leasehold; house freehold. Mortgage advisors/solicitors possibly culpable. Housebuilders definitely tried to get away with rip-off. At the least unfair trading. And, greedy!!

[1carus] 14/6/2019 17:55

You do employ a solicitor when you buy a house... the lease hold thing would be mentioned.

[jugears] 14/6/2019 16:53

You have to be extremely stupid to not know the difference between leashold & freehold
I do find this report very unbelievable.

[sikhthetech] 14/6/2019 14:55

Jugears,

"I have not heard of anyone who has bought a lease hold property thinking it was freehold ?"

Read the parliamentary report..

"It is clear that many of the leaseholders we heard from were not aware of the
differences between freehold and leasehold at the point of purchase, in particular the additional costs and obligations that come with a leasehold property. "




"I doubt anyone buying freehold will worry to much about those that have been stupid enough to buy leasehold, "

People bought via H2B to buy bigger or more expensive properties ...

They bought leasehold as it was part of Help to Buy...One of the consequences of Help to Buy was leasehold on single dwelling NEW BUILDS...

The govn(tax payers) own a part of that property and if/when there is another property crash, taxpayers will pick up the bill.


Therefore, any recommendations with leasehold reform.. redress, future of H2B will become an issue..

How big on issue will depend how much the housebuilders are exposed to it..

I'd still like to know how much TW are exposed to leasehold and H2B...

If leasehold/H2B reform is already reflected in the share price then I'd consider buying but I'm not convinced they are just yet..
so still researching...