Smith (ds) Share Discussion Threads

[mcunliffe1] 04/12/2023 13:18

The phrases 'Investing more capital into its business' and 'the returns earned from that capital are (also) increasing' are good.

The phrase 'consider share repurchases' is not good.

Whilst I accept, with some reluctance, the benefit of a share BB when the share price is uncharacteristically low compared to a BB when the share price is high I still see the concept of a BB as a admission by the management that they are devoid of growth ideas.

Unless a company grows or at least grabs a larger share of its market how can earnings per share grow? I appreciate the maths of buying your own shares and cancelling them creates fewer shares demanding a dividend payment - hence, future earnings are indeed more "per share" than they would otherwise be.

But what's wrong with buying out a competitor?

[buyzantium] 04/12/2023 12:48

Simply Wall Street has suggested this morning that if we want to find a potential multi-bagger, often there are underlying trends that can provide clues. In a perfect world, we'd like to see a company investing more capital into its business and ideally the returns earned from that capital are also increasing. This shows us that it's a compounding machine, able to continually reinvest its earnings back into the business and generate higher returns. So on that note, DS Smith (LON:SMDS) looks quite promising in regards to its trends of return on capital.

[buyzantium] 04/12/2023 12:29

With inflation cooling down, Barclays expects volumes to pick up next year by around 3-5%. It also suggested that if the company cut back on growth capex, free cash flow would be significantly ahead of dividends and then it could consider share repurchases, especially at the current depressed multiple. "We believe DS Smith should cut capex to maintenance capex levels and hope that DS Smith doesn't engage in expensive M&A and instead focuses on optimising its portfolio and operations," analysts at Barclays said.

[buyzantium] 04/12/2023 12:26

It noted that DS Smith is one the cheapest stocks in global packaging currently and said it expects a volume recovery to drive a multiple re-rating."We believe DS Smith should cut capex to maintenance capex levels and hope that DS Smith doesn't engage in expensive M&A and instead focuses on optimising its portfolio and operations,"

[buyzantium] 04/12/2023 11:45

Barclays upgraded DS Smith on Monday to 'overweight' from 'equalweight' and lifted the price target to 360p from 310p.

[buyzantium] 04/12/2023 08:52

Usually one expects to see SKG and MNDI reacting in a similar manner but both are not mirroring this strong rise of DS Smth this morning.

[yump] 03/12/2023 19:39

Ds smith produces 8.5billion square metres of board a year.

110 million is 1.3% of 8.5 billion. So pretty irrelevant.

Furthermore, there is pressure to reduce inappropriate box sizes, so that should hopefully reduce the pointless transport of air and there should be some very gradual reduction in output as a result of that.

Aren’t facts great when they are in context.

[yump] 03/12/2023 19:12

Share price also was down from covid peak (50%+) and Amazon is a fraction of dsms output.
Halfords bike sales down a lot from peak.
Etc etc

So quoting the Amazon reduction from Covid peak is irrelevant.

Behold the theory of relativity at work.

[bell011] 03/12/2023 16:49

Common knowledge now.
Lough under consultation for closure...80 jobs.
Work moved to Blunham, consultation there for 20 job losses.
110 million sq meter of board less production year on year.
Amazon cardboard requirement 66% down from the covid peak.

Sheet plants affected for now.....not yet for the cull but Clay Cross as the first box plant maybe...time will tell.

Demand will need to pick up.

Just facts. The quiet recession.

[stevieweebie2] 22/11/2023 10:46

Workers of DS Smith Logistics, a wholly owned subsidiary of DS Smith, will strike over pay in the run up to Christmas, Unite, the UK’s leading union, has informed.
An initial seven days of strike action will take place between 20 and 27 November, with strike action set to intensify throughout December if the dispute is not resolved, the union added.
The drivers, based in Launceston in Cornwall, Sittingbourne in Kent, Avonmouth in Bristol and Tuxford in Nottinghamshire, have rejected a 5 per cent pay offer, stating that this offer represented a significant real terms pay cut.
The strike will affect DS Smith customers like Amazon, Direct Wines, Cadbury and Haribo. The drivers also provide delivery services for British Gypsum, VPK Packaging, Cepac, Board 24 and Sinat Portbury and pick up recycling at distribution centres for Tesco, Morrisons, Aldi, Lidl, Coop, ASOS, Biffa and Veolia. A large pile-up of uncollected cardboard recycling will cause significant disruptions to the operations of these companies, Unite stated.

[buyzantium] 16/11/2023 05:56

Any thoughts out there as to whether Mondi might still be considering a takeover as reported in 2021. Current attractive low price and beneficial synergy makes it feel that it could perhaps resurface.

[jeffian] 26/10/2023 10:56

He seems to have disappeared for a couple of years between 2021/23 and hasn't been seen since #4234! I wouldn't hold your breath.

[mcunliffe1] 26/10/2023 10:52

bell011: in your post number 4234 you implied you would reply in due course and add more context to you bald statement in post number 4231 wherein you clearly stated two plants would be closed.

Do you now, nine days later, have any context?

[anhar] 26/10/2023 09:46

Reasonably encouraging pre-half year close trading update.

...Overall, I am pleased with our robust performance during the first half. Despite an ongoing weak macro-economic environment, we expect volume performance to improve, with second half volume performance anticipated to be better than the first half. We continue to invest behind our customers, focusing on providing them with value added solutions and this, together with our strong operational performance, means we are positioned well for the remainder of FY24.

[huckers] 24/10/2023 19:19

Me too. Bought this a few years ago at around 250p and sold out at a little over 400p, as I recall. Waiting for a final dip back to 250p and I’ll see if I can do the same trip again!

[pinemartin9] 24/10/2023 16:29

I'm considering taking a position here. Looks to have found some stability at these levels. The dividend is decent and good prospects of capital growth. Given current markets it may be too early though. I'm certainly watching to see if things get silly.

[alotto] 22/10/2023 22:21

is Smith DS going to post earnings in the region of £500 mln in 23/24? if that is the case how does the market justify such a low share price?

[anhar] 19/10/2023 10:59

Maybe he's thinking outside the box

[mcunliffe1] 19/10/2023 09:30

bel011: how long does it take you to expand upon a very bold statement?

[rcturner2] 19/10/2023 06:52

We have a client who recently launched 2 new products at London packaging week and they have work coming out of their ears.

[buyzantium] 18/10/2023 15:02

Further to posting below 4236. The purchase on 12th October by Richard Pike the Group Finance Director of 88745 shares at 284.50 is curious if Bell011's facts are accurate and must surely be known by the GFD.

[buyzantium] 18/10/2023 11:26

Bell011 - Have you singled out the DS Smith bulletin board to impart this information? I have only checked one other very relevant Packaging & Paper bulletin board expecting to find the same warning but no comment can be found. Please therefore forgive me if I somewhat sceptical as to your motive.

[mcunliffe1] 18/10/2023 09:30

thanks bell011.

[bell011] 17/10/2023 21:57

Fair questions... i'll reply in due course adding more context .. and sadly i will be correct. Will say .. that as recessionary indicators go cardboard demand is important...dropping dramatically.. Smiths will have to report it. I will add i have no interest in share price.

[mcunliffe1] 16/10/2023 10:55

My brief search of the internet shows no closure of plants evident. Fordham seems to be in fine fettle.

Of course, trying to prove/show a negative (if no closer is expected) is nigh on impossible. But, bell011, you seem so sure of two closures. So, your explanation and further details should not be difficult for you. Please help.