Smith (ds) Share Discussion Threads

[cruelladeville] 07/9/2023 17:11

DS Smith under the cosh due to the Smurfit Kappa developments? Serial disappointment here the last few years. Takeover candidate?

[twdlw] 31/8/2023 09:33

Trading statement just before x/d date should be interesting.

[anhar] 30/8/2023 09:56

There's a trading update due on 05 September.

[buyzantium] 30/8/2023 09:45

Final dividend of 12p payable on 3/10/23. Goes XD on 7/9/23.

[cruelladeville] 29/8/2023 18:51

It just happened.

[tnt99] 27/8/2023 21:23

Should see this over 3.00 this week

[lovewinshatelosses] 01/8/2023 11:06

Took profits yesterday. Feel we are going to see a pull back soon. Could easily be wrong of course. If we return to 280p ish on no company-specific news, will almost certainly jump right back in. GLA.

[dondee] 19/7/2023 10:00

should be well north of 300p soon.

[peart] 02/7/2023 07:39

10 years ago the dividend was 8p and the share price was not dissimilar to now. Now it's 18p, another indication of value here! Long term holders will be fine, in my opinion. This is also an indication of the UK market in general, there's a lot of value in our companies. At some time the glass will be half full and not half empty as it is now. I'm convinced its just a question of when not if, as for years the spring keeps getting pressed down and down.....it's a hard game!

[peart] 02/7/2023 06:44

As has been posted here by others the internet and ordering goods over it is not going away. People need boxes and packaging for those deliveries and that is not going away either, in fact it's probably increasing, plus there's all the other goods and services that require packaging, which may drop a bit in some areas only to be replaced by the internet orders - ie a few less deliveries to shops, but more direct to consumer or businesses. The thing is, I've no doubt that whilst this is a very competitive business, the big boys, say Amazon by example, cannot scrat around buying boxes and packaging from lots of little suppliers incurring additional costs for themselves with extra procurement and perhaps varying quality, but maybe saving a few pence on a box - overall its not going to work for them. They need a big supplier who can do a big job for them with quality and reliability of supply. That's where the likes of DS Smith come in. They each need each other. Just as the supermarkets need P&G or Heinz and they need the supermarkets. We have talk of recession or maybe we'll muddle through. But, is say 0.3% growth or 0.3% contraction over a couple of quarters going to make a huge difference to packaging requirements. I doubt it. People will hold onto a car for another year or put off moving home, or perhaps do a holiday in the UK rather than abroad. A P/E of 6.25 and a historical (18p) dividend of 6.6% has to be cheap. If we get another nice dividend increase come the half year results this will look cheaper again. It would appear odd to have such a nice dividend increase in the year to April 23 to then get no increase the following year. Maybe this will go cheaper, who knows short term, but longer term this very well managed company has to offer great value at these prices, in my opinion. Last October the price dipped to about 250p but earnings were £280 million after tax then, this year they are £492 million after tax - simply it's very cheap now, nearly a year later. I bought in again on Friday 30th June!

[deanforester] 26/6/2023 16:59

I have added 20% to my holding this morning, at 265.5p.

[tole] 26/6/2023 05:34

https://citywire.com/funds-insider/news/expert-view-ncc-ds-smith-musicmagpie-burford-capital-and-speedy-hire/DS Smith has more upside to offer, says HargreavesPackaging and paper company DS Smith (SMDS) may have disappointed markets with full-year numbers, but the 'depressed valuation' means there is upside to come, says Hargreaves Lansdown.The group reported an 11% increase in revenue to £8.2bn and operating profits up 35% to £354m, but markets concentrated on lower volumes on the back of customer destocking and weakening consumer demand as the cost-of-living crisis continues to take its toll. The shares fell 4.4%, or 12p, to 268.2p at the end of last week.However, analyst Matt Britzman said the pricing was the big driver of performance and is 'taking the reins'.'The benefits of price actions taken over the past couple of years are now feeding through to the bottom line, with underlying operating profit creeping above the guided range of £850m-£860m,' he said.'DS Smith is also doing well to control what it can, grabbing market share in what is a fragmented space while investing further in innovation and efficiency.'Britzman added that the shares are already trading 'on a depressed valuation and a 6.3% forward yield' and 'results support the case that there's more upside on offer here'

[lovewinshatelosses] 23/6/2023 16:04

If you have a look at the current Berkshire Hathaway p/f, I would argue that the metrics here are superior to at least a couple of their holdings at the time of print and probably at least several (although I have not done a deep dive across the entire p/f, so caveat on the second statement).
None of them are without risks, and even the jewel in their crown (AAPL) is trading on a P/E ratio that is simply crazy IMO. As is their current price to sales ratio. Especially taking into account the macro stuff. It might remain elevated for years ahead of course, as we all know the saying about irrational markets and solvency - but right now, fundamentals are pushed aside for bubbles. And the mega caps across the pond are disproportionately enjoying the bulk of ETF money inflows too. Daft system, IMO, but it is what it is.
But, different opinions are what makes a market, as well as it being enjoyable to discuss and have one's own opinions challenged. Life in an echo chamber would be dull :) Good weekend all.

[muzmanoz] 23/6/2023 14:43

19 June 2023. Jeffries 400p23 June 2023, JP Morgan from 411p to 372p

[huckers] 23/6/2023 14:07

Does anyone know and can be bothered to tell me what their geographical footprint is? Thanks in advance.

[blueclyde] 23/6/2023 14:04

It would not make the Buffett grade as earnings are not being turned into cash. Despite the illusion of strong earnings debt is growing. That's why the price is being hammered.

[dope007] 23/6/2023 10:08

This crep is happening across loads of stocks. Profit beats, upped forecasts and then dumped for days. UK mkt as a whole is being relentlessly sold off

[lovewinshatelosses] 23/6/2023 10:01

Goodness me! I have bought some falling knives in my time, but rarely after such an impressive market update!
Looks like history will be repeating itself and I will be adding again around the 250p mark as well. Ex div in September is it? So maybe will get the chance to add around that level in August, when the markets are typically quiet.
I remember being prepared to buy a third tranche if 2 quid hit, last October/November, when further falls looked likely (to my mind at that time). Perhaps I will have that chance this autumn?
While nothing is 100% safe, IMO this is one of those outfits that would make the Warren Buffet grade.
So, subject to the obvious caveats, if needed, I can and will tuck these away for the longer term. GLA.

[riverman77] 23/6/2023 09:23

DS Smith has amongst the lowest margins of the big packaging companies, so would likely take more of a hit if we see a big slowdown. Leverage is also higher than its peers. Probably priced in now though.

[essentialinvestor] 23/6/2023 09:15

Gearing is modest so not an issue unless their revenues falls off a cliff.

[anhar] 23/6/2023 09:09

My view is that most short term prices move randomly and have no reason. But if you must seek one behind the large fall in SDMS since the results, it's prob the drop in sales volume coupled with the recession we may be facing, which if it happens could precipitate further volume falls.

Although in the year to 30 April 23 they more than compensated for the volume fall by increasing prices - leading to an increase in sales value - in a recession falling demand will likely limit how much they can increase prices. So eps may well be hit if that happens and consequently the shares become less attractive, making sellers more prevalent than buyers at the moment.

I don't think the debt increase has much to do with it because gearing remains fairly reasonable.

I've held the share for some years in my income port but it's not one of my better performers. Divis have been cut in the past so they have form on not being amongst my most reliable payers, though the 18p for 23 is something of a record payout from memory. And it's showing quite a loss on capital, though I'm purely an income investor and ignore price flucs.

[pinemartin9] 23/6/2023 08:36

My target entry point is 250 if it get's there.

[rcturner2] 23/6/2023 08:08

In tough times people tend to cut out big ticket items first like cars and holidays. I can't see the demand for packaging cardboard changing much.

[spawny100] 23/6/2023 07:54

I can only see the market share for online shopping increasing, particularly so if money is tight, given that more often than not Amazon/eBay are the cheapest places to buy stuff.

[essentialinvestor] 23/6/2023 07:52

With respect this may be an oversimplification. What the market may 'think'
(at least for now) is there are downside risks to earnings over the next couple
of years - does not mean this is definitely right, but weakening macro
is weighing and packaging has heavy operational gearing - estimates
can change very rapidly, in either direction.