Seeing Machines Share Discussion Threads

[willoicc] 18/12/2023 10:15

Seems like it is a very standard thing to install Car Dash Cam to the after market.



Why not Seeing products?

Individuals can be much easier to persuade to improve their in car alertness and safety specially for frequent, tiring long-distance driving?

[nvhltd] 15/12/2023 22:02

I do follow Colin.

I disagree with you on the cash position in ours and Smarteye case because their product is selling and regulated for use. If the cash runs out both companies would be bought. Existing shareholders are the ones that would lose out and not the company itself. In our case at the very least Magna would take us over. The critical thing at this stage is does the tech work and if it does the cash position is irrelevant because we'd be bought.

It's not such an concern for existing shareholders in SEE yet, but it is for Smarteye investors, but not the company.

My point is posters keep banging on about Smarteye's cash position and I'm saying that at this point it's irrelevant to the company itself because it's proven to work and won't be allowed to fail now so close to mass market adoption of dms. It would be bought and the losers will be current investors and not the company. It will survive regardless (within reason).

[smithless] 15/12/2023 16:39

Chinese OEM's generally want cheap and cheerful and will go to Tier 2's how can provide basic DMS. They will just meeting EU conditions, but not euroncap (will require all of the cabin to be monitored and very few have the capabilities to this - Seeing M and a less extent Smarteye) Not a space Seeing M operates in, as time and resources wasted on thin margins. Someone like Toyota may have its own low level DMS and may bring in an outsider like Smarteye for tech help or it may go to Seeing M for a whole solution. Until a RFQ is issued by the tier 1 to tier 2 supplier its just guess work which OEM will go with whom. Paul will use Seeing M time and resource on those he thinks will give the best return, thus why it would be foolish chasing all of them, a point he made re not getting involved with truck OEM's.

Re cash its always relevant. If you run out of cash in the pre cash flow positive stage with big R&D bills to pay you go bust. Colin Barnden is very up on DMS and is overall pro Seeing M. Worth following just to keep up to date
hxxps://my.linkedin.com/posts/colin-barnden-1081376_seeing-machines-partners-with-mobileye-to-activity-7028364668779802624-d35d

[skinny] 15/12/2023 14:45

3 hefty trades of 7,438,284 earlier above the offer.

[nvhltd] 15/12/2023 14:40

Blackpudding and Smithless that's my point and what I'm trying to get my head around.

First of all it doesn't matter whether it's Toyota or Tesla my understanding is that if they are going to sell in Europe then they need a DMS going forward.

Secondly, what really constitutes a DMS system? What are the minimum requirements to sell cars that first satisfy GSR and Secondly get a star rating with Euroncap? Does it have to be a camera based system and does anyone know who the potential suppliers are for non camera and camera based system outside of SEE, Smarteye, Cipia and Tobii?

So if Toyota use Denso and we don't have a relationship with them as a tier 2 does that mean we can never win Toyota?

Likewise is or could the likes of Valeo have relationship with both Seeing Machines and Smarteye so that can offer a choice of systems for their oem customers?

So the point is do we work exclusively with certain Tier 1's which gives a certain level if protection, but then may limit the amount of OEM's we can work with or could we supply any tier 1, but in competition with Smarteye as we have no exclusivity?

I'm asking because I don't know why Paul would want to limit the amount of tier 1's we work with and default reduce our opportunities?

Finally, I think the cash position of both Seeing Machines and Smarteye is now irrelevant if the technology of both companies is sound. The only people the cash and profitability affects is generally the current investors who will lose out. If these systems are mandated and fit for purpose the cash position becomes less and less important because someone will buy them out if necessary. In our case Magna will pull the rug from under our feet if cash becomes an issue.

[wsm812] 15/12/2023 13:46

Pessimism is not a bad tactic when assessing one's own decisions as, if proved correct we feel vindicated or if proved wrong we benefit from an unexpected change in fortunes.

If you do not think this company will pay off for you then you should sell now and cut your losses.

[blackpudding13] 15/12/2023 12:51

I think valeo and Magna will clean up and the rest of the tier 1's will be scrambling about for the dregs which will not interest us. Just waiting on the truth to come out

[smithless] 15/12/2023 09:06

There are many tier 1's Valeo, Mitsubishi, Aptiv, Veoneer/Magna, Bosch, Hyundai MOBIS, Denso etc. Toyota uses mainly Denso, but as yet DMS is Euro focused will most probably use Bosch. Companies like BMW and VW see DMS as much more than a regulation box tick and see it as a whole new path to cabin entertainment - Toyota/Lexus are quite slow in this space. I think they will go for a more basic system of DMS and will regret it when Euro ENCAP only gives 5* to those who have a full cabin monitoring system.

Seeing M is well ahead in this space and don't be fooled by Smarteye, who win a lot of design wins, but as stated in their 2022 annual report have yet to win a request for quote, which is the only way to work out who is ahead in this game.

Smarteye have a very good PR machine and they need it as they will need another funding round asap. If Smarteye start issuing the number of vehicles with their DMS on a quarterly basis on the road I might change my outlook on them. But their current approach of design wins and thinking OEM's will bypass Tier1's for DMS software, I think is flawed - Toyota/lexus made that mistake with their nav infotainment system for years, until they outsourced it

[nvhltd] 14/12/2023 16:12

Here's a question that has been puzzling me that someone might have an answer or view on.

Paul told us that they used to have relationships with many tier 1's, but as time has gone by they are limiting the numbers to 2,3 or 4 approximately.

So are Seeing Machines limiting the number of OEM'S they can be supplied to and therefore their market share by being tied to certain Tier 1's that only supply to certain OEM'S? Is this the reason why they they are able to predict what their market share will be?

For example if we don't work with Tier 1 X who supply Toyota have we already excluded ourselves from winning Toyota? Surely we would need to work with all the Tier 1's if we want to challenge for everything, but the flip side is the Tier 1's might be able to offer their OEM'S a variety of DMS suppliers.

[jpuff] 14/12/2023 10:39

All interesting technology and they seem to be doing well, so the $64k question is why are the shares such a poor and multi year underperforming investment?

[amt] 13/12/2023 18:52

Sounds like Tesla need Seeing Machines on board.

[nvhltd] 13/12/2023 15:14

I hope so too. I've been invested in this share for years and witnessed countless dawns and promises around orders, delivery and market share. Despite the technology as an investment so far its been a dog. Oh how I wished I'd sold out and bought rolls Royce shares earlier this year.

[base7] 13/12/2023 14:40

I share your frustration which you summarise brilliantly in your post.The most ardent of bulls cannot deny that Pauls timescales have slipped in respect of our 3 divisions & we may have thought that the word "imminent",or similar, would be expunged from his corporate vocabulary.I remain invested & have to take responsibility for that & with view to my understandable confirmation bias I am hoping that he can surprise us on the upside over the coming weeks , rather than the opposite.

[nvhltd] 13/12/2023 13:54

Really? You think the worlds automotive sector pays attention to an award ceremony in the UK?

As for G3 sales read my previous post. The results presentation a few weeks ago was full of contradictions around G3 sales.

G3 sales targets need to be sensible, realistic and achievable.

Until recently investors thought, aided by Paul, that SEE pretty much had the commercial space all to themselves with billions of miles of data, a product already deployed, a new updated version on the way, huge mandated market (330K vehicles in Europe alone), blue chip users already and 54K installed units.

So first of all we are going to be almost 12 months late making G3 available for sale.

In the results meeting they are aiming for circa 25% growth in sales which is an additional 13,500 units GLOBALLY!

In the same presentation they then said they were targeting 10% of the European market of 330K vehicles which would be 33K units sold in Europe alone.

So there's your first contradiction. Is the target 25% growth on 54K units already installed globally or is it 10% of the new regulated market of 330K units which is 33K unit which includes the rest of the world sales?

The next question is how Smarteye have come from nowhere with a fleet product a d at least one other DMS company?

Even leaving that aside if there are only a couple of other suppliers why are they so Conservative with their European sales forecasts? We're the only one that has a proven product which has just been upgraded, its been deployed for years with catapiller and other blue chip clients, there's billions of miles of data and product history, they have a monitoring centre and they are being backed with marketing by Mobileye. So why the ridiculously low sales targets?

However, the reason I get so frustrated with SEE and Paul is that it was them that lead us to believe in the potential of this G3 product and the opportunity, but now we can almost taste success after so many years they start to row back on expectations with derisory forecasts.

The same with automotive. We supposed to have the cheapest product from a cost point of view, the best product, the holy grail of fitment positions, relationships with Magna, Qualcomm, mobileye etc, the 3 pillars and countless menu options and yet we've hardly won a contract in more than 18 months while others have?

Then whatever happened to the 330 aircraft deal that was imminent 12 months ago? We've since found out that we don't even have a product developed yet.

So my frustration is the result of a seriously depressed share price which is the direct result of the performance of Paul and his ability to deliver on his hype and promises.

[base7] 13/12/2023 13:10

You may be right-but todays news will focus the attention of OEMs on the need to be producing compliant vehicles ASAP- & those who already buy mirrors from Magna may be tempted to buy their upgraded DMS inclusive solution for an extra few $s to provide a quick fix.Additionally., Paul referred(Town Hall Oct 22)to Fleet contracts of 50-100k each once G3 was launched & perhaps that will become a reality & we should know more by this time next month.

[nvhltd] 13/12/2023 09:27

More waffle and spin. We're now at the point where they need to put a stake in the ground with what we've got and sell something. We're supposed to be in the second billion dollar phase of sales. Even if they start to come through we know there's an engineering phase to go through before we start to receive revenues even if the mirror is the holy grail.

Paul has a couple of weeks before he fails with yet another prediction. The clock is ticking down fast to where the fantastic Magna deal becomes a millstone around our necks.

[base7] 12/12/2023 14:23

Apparently Awards lunch is taking place now at The Savoy in London-perhaps we will experience a substantial increase in volume after the port & cheese resulting in a decent rise in our share price ?

[amt] 12/12/2023 07:54

it has become internationally renowned as the top international road safety award

Perhaps better than at first site.

[boonboon] 12/12/2023 07:02

That's not the type of award I was hoping for.

[snpout] 11/12/2023 09:26

And people wonder why the share price is where it is. Contradicting themselves, promising rfq’s by this and that date. If there’s no auto rfq announced in next 12 or so trading days till year end then mcglones credibility will be shot. The same rehashed garbage they come out with on their social media platforms also achieves diddly squat

[nvhltd] 08/12/2023 21:14

In the results presentation they were full of contradiction. In the commercial space they said that there were very few competitors. They then said that 330,000 commercial vehicles were produced in Europe in 2022. Yet despite the size of the European market and very few competitors they were only forecasting winning 10% of that market with gen 3. That's 33,000 vehicles per year.

At another point in the video they are predicting 25% growth in Fleet sales. Based on the current installed numbers of 54,000 that's only 13,500 units.

So not only is a target of 10% of 330,000 commercial vehicles derisory (and that's just gen 3 in Europe), but then they are predicting only 25% growth across the globe be it gen 2 or gen 3.

So which is it 10% of 330,000 vehicles which is 33,000 vehicles plus the rest of the world or is 25% forecasted growth across the globe based on 54,000 units currently installed which is 13,500 units.

[snpout] 08/12/2023 16:52

Yes mcglones outpourings of predictions have long since grated. One of his other ones was the bidding for fleet contracts with 50 to 100k orders. More pie in the sky. His proactive infomercial interview in august this year he stated that there would be a run of rfq awards in the next quarter. There’s about 12 trading days
left for that to come to pass. People were wetting themselves with excitement when the “ Italian job” thing leaked out. Like hearing people down the pub
talking about stocks or the shoe shine boy giving you a “ hot tip”. McGlone has to deliver soon. And what about those big yank investors who were clambouring over each other to get stock. But they’d have to buy it on the open market. More in a long line of complete pish