Pci-pal Share Discussion Threads

[cyberbub] 02/7/2024 07:02

Can longer term investors please let me know of some links to other broker reports? I'm trying to work out a reasonable 12-month target price...

[simon gordon] 01/7/2024 21:09

Livingbridge paid £112m for Sycurio. They are on their third CEO since buying it. After 2022 the top management has had little to no experience in the PCI DSS scene. They've just burned £5m in legal fees. They bought the company believing the IP was rock solid.

Why they didn't buy PCIP for 150p in 2021 is a mystery. It would have been a better business decision.

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I note the Cavendish analyst mentions PCIP doing M&A in his note this morning.

Whoever speaks with PCIP next, can you ask them if this is going to happen soon or if the analyst is a fantasist?

[adamb1978] 01/7/2024 20:50

They delayed PCIP moving into continental Europe.

I struggle to see that Sycurio are better off for it though given that they've now paid their fees, paid PCIP's fees, lost their EU and UK patents and had their reputation trashed. They're also left with very dated technology.

Them and Livingbridge obviously viewed it as a bet/gamble worth taking at the time that they embarked on this. That probably tells you how weak they think that their competitive position and tech is compared to PCIP.

[andre] 01/7/2024 17:10

Sometimes in business it pays to be pragmatic. I don't like it much but it is the bigger picture unfortunately. Onwards and upwards.

[cyberbub] 01/7/2024 17:04

So is it right that Sycurio tried to derail or delay PCIP with a vexatious/fraudulent suit, and it appears that they have successfully done so, and will suffer no consequences apart from paying their own legal bills?

[andre] 01/7/2024 15:21

Looks like the start of a long awaited re-rating. And I mean long awaited!

[simon gordon] 01/7/2024 10:11

Tech Market View - 1/7/24:

PCI-PAL puts its legal hassles behind it

AIM-listed payment security and customer engagement specialist, PCI Pal, has reached a confidential settlement with its US rival, Sycurio (formerly Semafone), resolving the long running legal battle between the two companies.

The lawsuit had alleged that PCI-Pal's "Agent Assist" secure card payment technology infringed UK and US Patents. Sycurio had been seeking damages and an injunction to prevent any further sales and marketing of the Agent Assist product.

Following a victory for PCI-PAL in the High Court in 2023, and a subsequent decision by the Court of Appeal, that Sycurio’s UK patent is invalid and not infringed by the UK vendor, the settlement now brings an end to all legal proceedings, both the UK and US (see: PCI-PAL declares victory in patent case). The confidential agreement means that PCI-PAL can now put behind it, nearly three years of unwelcome distraction caused by the litigation.

PCI-PAL appears to be in a strong position, with a growing customer base, innovative IP and a profitable growth strategy. The company’s latest interim results revealed strong growth and improving profitability, with revenue for the six months ended 31 December 2023 up 20% to £8.7m and a gross margin of 89%.

In other news, PCI-PAL today announced the appointment of a new Chief Financial Officer, Ryan Murray. Murray, who is currently CFO at FD Technologies plc, will take up his new role on 14 October 2024. Murray has over 23 years' accountancy and financial experience in both industry and public practice, including substantial time working in the technology sector.

[adamb1978] 01/7/2024 08:51

Would be nice to get a finish above 65p which its bumped into twice this year and come off. The legal action being cleared up should help that as its de-risked, and then hopefully the TU in 2-3 weeks time can keep it above there

[this_is_me] 01/7/2024 06:35

At least he will not have the big list of active directorships that Thomas William Good has.

[simon gordon] 01/7/2024 06:15

New CFO, Ryan Murray, he's 47:

[simon gordon] 30/6/2024 15:51

Good points guys!

It's refreshing not to have to think about the patent dispute anymore.

Now James has an opportunity to proactively market the growth story to investors, especially private client fund managers, smaller institutions and regional pension funds. Maybe he will hire a specialist agency to help to do this.

It's like a new beginning for PCIP.

They are battle-hardened, sharpened and stronger for this legal tussle.

Here's hoping the next RNS is the DWP contract!

[adamb1978] 30/6/2024 15:34

Yes, clearly lipstick on pig I agree.

I'd imagine that the settlement will contain provisions from Sycurio stating that PCIP don't infringe their patents as at the date of the agreement, and PCIP probably agreeing not to seek invalidation of Sycurio's patents. Probably no payments either way - just each having to have pay their own bills.

Logical for PCIP to accept that rather than spend more money and take whatever residual risk remains. PCIP are doing brilliantly it seems in the US so no point having any negativity over there.

[andre] 30/6/2024 12:07

The U.K. case was already concluded after the appeal was booted out. Now they have reached an agreement for the USA which could mean a payment either way. So this smacks of putting lipstick on a pig to be honest. We will have to wait for results to see what the settlement may have been. Surely PCI have a lot of costs coming from Sycurio losing.

[simon gordon] 28/6/2024 15:21

Sycurio welcomes settlement of global patent infringement litigation against competitor

GUILDFORD, UK and BOSTON, USA – June 28, 2024 - Sycurio™, the leading provider of seamless and secure multi-channel payment experiences for contact centers, is pleased to announce that it has reached an agreement with PCI Pal PLC and its related entities to settle the outstanding patent infringement litigation cases filed against PCI Pal in both the UK and US. The cases are now concluded, and the terms of the settlement agreement will remain confidential.

Denise Parker, Sycurio’s CEO, commented: “We are delighted to have resolved the global dispute and as a pioneering technology business it is important that we defend our IP. Sycurio can now fully focus on developing its business with its US patented technology and related technology in the EU. This settlement represents a positive step in Sycurio’s continued growth.”

[simon gordon] 28/6/2024 15:11

Looks like ECK is trying to get a Partner program going with this new vacancy:

The Role: We are looking for an exceptionally highly motivated and experienced Partner Manager to join our innovative and dynamic global sales team. You will possess a strong background in sales and partner management, and you will be required to have a technical appreciation, and understanding of SAAS, software as a service particularly in secure payments and customer solutions. You will be a strategic thinker with the ability to build excellent relationships, and a proven track record of driving growth revenue growth through partnerships.



They've got no choice. The old direct model in a fast-moving SaaS world won't cut it. An issue for them is that they are eight years behind PCIP in creating such a business model.

Sycurio looks to have tried to impede/derail PCIP's partner progress with the lawsuit and hired personnel to jump-start a partner program in early 2023.

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IC - 11/6/24:

Eckoh's North American growth is undervalued

The software company grew its contracts by over 50 per cent last year but this has yet to come through in revenue figures

-Strong gross and operating margins
-Fast-growing North American market

Eckoh's (ECK) software secures customer payment details, so companies don’t have to worry. When a customer inputs their payment details, instead of them going through the retailer they will get diverted to input their details in a separate Eckoh portal. The payment will then be dealt with and the data stored on an external cloud computer.

The benefit is that Eckoh uses Amazon Web Services and Microsoft Azure cloud computing services. This is cheaper than on-premises servers, but also the giant cloud computing companies have much better cyber security.

These benefits are clearly resonating with customers. In the year to March, total contracted business rose 52 per cent to £52.6mn. This was driven by strong growth in North America, where contracted business rose 44 per cent to $16.8mn.

Given the timing, a lot of this new business is not yet visible in the annual recurring revenue (ARR) figure, which was up just 1 per cent. However, if the new business contracted, which is scheduled to go live soon, is included, it would represent a 14 per cent ARR increase.

This growth rate, combined with an adjusted operating margin of 22.4 per cent, up from 19.9 per cent last year, is a sign of a strong business. Anything near 40 per cent when you combine growth rate with operating margin is what analysts look for in high-quality software companies.

Broker Peel Hunt currently has Eckoh trading on a forward price/earnings ratio of 17 with a forward free cash flow yield of 4 per cent. This looks cheap, especially given the exposure to the US market. Stick to buy.

[adamb1978] 28/6/2024 08:22

Andre

Yes, PCIP have often said that Sycurio launched this action to derail them, and the fact that they've been laughed out of court and had their patents invalidated suggests similar. They launched the action knowing the price would get hammered and then came in with a low ball offer to try to acquire PCIP and thereby be able to replace Sycurio's old technology with PCIP's more modern tech. In some regard, their plan partly worked as PCIP delayed launching in continental europe due to legal costs eating up their cash.

The business is still performing very well and James still sounds very confident about the outlook. Trading update will be in mid/late July and interesting to read.

Adam

[simon gordon] 28/6/2024 08:15

Morning Andre,

If Sycurio didn't believe in their IP they would have folded after the 90p offer was rebuffed and PCIP offered to licence the patent. This all happened May 23, the trial was June 23.

By then, they'd had almost two years to try and tangle PCIP in knots and burn cash.

That they went ahead with the trial and continued the American case indicates that they believed in their patent.

After the appeal was granted January 24, some Sycurio staff on LinkedIn stated that this was a just cause to defend Sycurio's IP. The whole company believed in the patent.

In the meantime, PCIP has landed Zoom and sales in the States are going well.

[andre] 28/6/2024 06:49

Hi Simon.They may have been confident of winning the appeal but it was thrown out. This showed that they had no basis for an appeal and that the ruling was all in PCIP's favour. All of this time, PCIP were distracted from more expansion into the US any Sycurio gained market share. Or, I think, this was the plan. Surely you cannot lose this badly and actually believe you had a genuine case? Whilst embroiled in trial they also made an offer for PCIP when the share price was depressed. Seems like tactics rather than belief in their IP.

[hastings] 28/6/2024 06:43

I should be speaking with management at some point next month when there will be an update I've been told. No firm date yet, but looks like the latter part of July.

[simon gordon] 28/6/2024 06:30

Andre,

Maybe up to the UK trial, you could say that but in May 23, before the trial, PCIP offered to licence the patent and Sycurio said no.

-2022 Q1: tentative enquiry from Sycurio to purchase PCIP.
-2023 Q2: institutional shareholders turn down a 90p offer from Sycurio.
-2023 Q2: Sycurio turned down a licence offer from PCIP.
-2023 Q2: UK trial.
-2024 Q1: Sycurio very confident that they will win the appeal court trial.

The main point of damage to PCIP was the two years before the trial. After that, the bigger risk was with Sycurio. They could lose their patent, have costs awarded against them and damage their reputation in the PCI DSS market.

I think they truly believed that their patent was rock solid.

As Kenny Rogers sang:

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

Every gambler knows
That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away
And knowin' what to keep
'Cause every hand's a winner
And every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
Is to die in your sleep"

It looks like the whole exercise has cost PCIP c.£2.5m. Though in the 2024 accounts, it could be clearer if they have received any more costs back in the confidential agreement.

[dr biotech] 28/6/2024 06:20

Will be interesting to see if there is any financial settlement of the US case in our favour. It looked like it was just a delaying tactic.

[andre] 27/6/2024 20:28

Why do I feel like Sycurio never really believed there was a genuine patent issue. And that the entire process was designed to hold back PCIP?

[adamb1978] 27/6/2024 17:02

Ha! Funny suggestion. There is zero chance that the company would deal with them - Sycurio's credibility is shot to pieces!

[yousif] 27/6/2024 14:38

Is Sycurio coming back with a better offer OR perhaps Merging the two?
There is something brewing behind the scenes.
DYOR