Pci-pal Share Discussion Threads

[simon gordon] 05/6/2024 07:13

Based on the 2023 Prelims the company spent £2m on the UK case. Has now got back £1.3m and might try to claim another £0.7m.

The US case will in total cost around £2m.

At the moment they are down £2.7m (UK £0.7m & US £2m).

Sycurio is probably down £5.3m.

[simon gordon] 04/6/2024 18:27

I was half-expecting this to be resolved:

The Company is still considering its options with regards to the remaining element of costs. The High Court trial noted that the payment received of £1.1 million was an interim payment only. The Company will assess its potential next steps with its advisors and update investors in due course.

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RNS - 26/4/22

During Q3, the following procedural progress was made: In the U.K., the Court process continued and cost budgets of approximately GBP1.3 million were agreed for both parties with the Court. This agreed budget puts a ceiling on the maximum amount of costs that could be awarded against the losing side, subject to the judge's discretion, should the case go to Court.

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The Company can now confirm that it has received a cash payment of the interim costs awarded by the High Court on 19 December 2023 of £1.1 million. The Company also updates investors that Sycurio has agreed to pay a further £0.2 million for the costs of the appeal process. PCI Pal expects to receive these additional funds in the next two weeks.

[citys2874] 04/6/2024 14:22

should get press coverage later today and tomorrow primed to breakout and see new year highs coming great time to be in here

[citys2874] 04/6/2024 14:10

Tue 04 Jun 2024 13:40
RNS Number : 0855R
PCI-PAL PLC
04 June 2024


04 June 2024



PCI-PAL PLC

("PCI Pal", the "Company" or "the Group")



Further details following successful Court of Appeal hearing



PCI-PAL PLC (AIM: PCIP), the global cloud provider of secure payment solutions for business communications, is pleased to provide an update following the successful outcome of the Court of Appeal hearing regarding its patent litigation with its competitor, Sycurio Limited ("Sycurio").



Victory in Court of Appeal

Following the Company's announcement on 22 May 2024 that the Court of Appeal had dismissed Sycurio's appeal, upholding the original ruling of the High Court, which was resoundingly in PCI Pal's favour, the Company advises investors that the judgment has now been handed down and is publicly available at



Sycurio patent invalid

This order means that the ruling of the High Court invalidating Sycurio's UK patent (No. 2473376) stands and the patent has been revoked. The Company notes that the High Court had also ruled that even in the event that the patent had been valid, none of PCI Pal's deployment methods of its Agent Assist solution would have infringed.



Payments to PCI Pal for costs

The Company can now confirm that it has received a cash payment of the interim costs awarded by the High Court on 19 December 2023 of £1.1 million. The Company also updates investors that Sycurio has agreed to pay a further £0.2 million for the costs of the appeal process. PCI Pal expects to receive these additional funds in the next two weeks.



The Company is still considering its options with regards to the remaining element of costs. The High Court trial noted that the payment received of £1.1 million was an interim payment only. The Company will assess its potential next steps with its advisors and update investors in due course.



US litigation

The case in the US continues as expected with the trial scheduled for February 2025. The UK outcome has provided further strong validation for PCI Pal's position, both that it does not infringe and also in its counterclaims that Sycurio's patents are invalid.

[citys2874] 04/6/2024 14:04

Buys coming in news getting out should rally this afternoon

[citys2874] 04/6/2024 13:55

successful Court of Appeal hearing Victory and payment received

[citys2874] 04/6/2024 13:53

could see 75.00+ today

[citys2874] 04/6/2024 13:53

RNS OUT - Fabulous news

[adamb1978] 23/5/2024 11:24

thanks for the link - very understated!

[simon gordon] 23/5/2024 10:15

Morning Adam,

Hopefully, as you say, we are set up for a good few years of re-rating in small-cap land.

Good luck with ELCO and FIN. I'm in CNC and dancing around MGAM and FSJ. ASLI looks like a neat c.30% return over the next 15 months as it winds up.

Here's the point at two hours and thirteen minutes when the court dismissed the appeal:

Sycurio Ltd (appellant) v PCI-PAL Plc & anr respondents)

[adamb1978] 23/5/2024 09:05

Simon

You're very kind! Need to all individually take credit for our own investment decisions, both the good and bad ones, as its only you who hits buy and sell!

Agree about the 20%-30% which James mentioned before. I have a suspicion that we're at the upper end of that given the US growth, and I'm hoping an upcoming TU will confirm that. I thin kthey need to talk more about the market opportunity too such that if any approach from an acquiror comes, it happens at a sensible price.

TIG gone well too as you say, and BMY. I'm braced therefore for a profits warning or two to take the gloss off the year! I top-sliced BMY earlier this week so now looking for the next thing. I also like ELCO (if you dig into the revenue figures, them deliberately ramping down the on-prem business is hiding the growth in the cloud revenues) and also FIN too. Small caps generally could be in for a good 2-3 years I believe as interest rates get progressively cut.

Cheers

Adam

[simon gordon] 22/5/2024 20:25

Adam,

The risk is high for Sycurio to continue the American case. I have read that a judge can award enhanced damages against a litigant if it is decided the lawsuit was in bad faith or frivolous.

I don't think an acquirer would be put off by the American case. The whole situation has been massively de-risked.

It looks like the big shareholders are 100% behind the company and are expecting a much higher share price in the future.

The CEO mentioned 20% to 30%+ growth per annum over the coming years in the latest IMC.

They are the best cloud operator in the market, have enviable channel partners and now have a good wodge in the bank to accelerate growth.

It's a little beauty, thanks for flagging it three years ago!

Congrats on TIG!! Your approach to the market paid off, I was scared off by the Google angle and spammy history of TONICs industry.

[adamb1978] 22/5/2024 19:56

Hi Simon

I think we'll get a trading update with the next court update but should be positive whenever it comes out.

I'm not too bothered about the US case to be honest - if they continue, it provides a veil to stop acquirors coming in. I think Sycurio will continue though given they'll have sunk a pile of costs...

Adam

[simon gordon] 22/5/2024 19:50

Upcoming newsflow:

-May: appeal court ruling on costs.
-July: trading update.
-DWP tender result.
-Capital markets day.

Will Sycurio continue with the American trial or accept the law of diminishing returns?

Seems a low probability that they'll come back with a higher offer (+90p) as they'd have done it before the appeal hearing.

On the monthly chart, resistance is at 69p, close above that and 80p looks to be the next destination:


free stock charts from uk.advfn.com

[adamb1978] 22/5/2024 12:56

The Jun-24 figure looks about right to me, however I suspect that the Jun-25 figure is light, particularly given the recent small equity raise aimed to fund more bodies in the US so that side is evidently going very well. The churn is very low (3%-5%, depending on year) so most new ARR won is all incremental. I suspect Jun-24 might be more like £24m-£25m if the US is going well (and given the zoom read across, it probably is)

[loglorry1] 22/5/2024 12:44

Loving your optimism but sales are forecast to be 2024E of 19.1m and 2025E of 22.1m. I agree though the US is a very large market and things can go up very quickly if they gain traction in such a big market.

[adamb1978] 22/5/2024 12:38

Hopefully an acquisition by zoom or anyone else is years away. One advantage of teh patent nonsense is that it will have detered acquirors, whether funds or strategics.PE funds certainly wouldnt acquire a company who's IP is being questioned.

Therefore if the US case takes another year to resolve, it might not be a disaster. I'd like them to stay independent and continue to grow fro several years given this could multi-bag...market cap is just £45m, so perhaps 2x sales for the year which starts in 6 weeks time!

[loglorry1] 22/5/2024 11:41

Thanks - very helpful.

[simon gordon] 22/5/2024 11:32

Log,

The important factor for Zoom was to have a PCI solution and thankfully they picked PCIP, not Eckoh or Sycurio. They do not need to buy them.

PCIPs CEO expects Zoom to rapidly become a top-five client.

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March, 2024:

"...with only 20% of our markets shifted to the cloud, we are witnessing an enterprise cloud inflection point, where the lion’s share of exciting large-scale cloud transitions is about to take place."

Barak Eilam, CEO of NICE




This is what Zoom need PCIPs solution for, the whales.

[loglorry1] 22/5/2024 11:23

If PCIP was that important to Zoom they should have just bought them. Zoom is a 20bn market cap company. Maybe they will at some point!

[simon gordon] 22/5/2024 11:09

Log,

"Indeed but clearly with only 100K of revenue they've not booked (m)any yet!"

They couldn't land the whales until they had PCIP integrated into their platform which happened in Q2.

If you listen to this Zoom conference recording from March 2024, with Morgan Stanley, you'll hear the CFO discuss the matter at eight minutes:



The PCIP integration is talked about at the board level of Zoom as a vital factor to land whales.

[andre] 22/5/2024 11:07

Good things come to those who wait it seems. Nice rise today. Great news although we expected something like this. The litigant should be made to pay much more in costs to deter this type of corporate sabotage activity. They knew it had no merit yet sued, lost then appealed. Disgraceful.

[simon gordon] 22/5/2024 10:46

Log,

PCIP already take bot-style payments with IVR. They've also hooked up with PolyAI and have a story on their site about a joint customer success:

Golden Nugget partners with PCI Pal® to Improve Payment Experience with Conversational AI

[adamb1978] 22/5/2024 09:03

Hi loglorry - fair question - would be worth emailing the CEO (he's very responsive) or asking on their next investor call. I dont know the answer but I apply a large degree of strategic ignorance on investments as I've found in the 3 plcs which I've worked for you see investors coming up with concerns or attractions which are wholly irrelevant for teh company.