Orchid Developments Share Discussion Threads

[roughandtumbleone] 13/12/2012 16:23

MarkT,Read my email to Guy where I stated the adjustment to the Grand Mall's valuation back in 2009 and it result a bonus being paid on the back of the Colliers increase was wrong. I stated that in the correspondence I shared here.I never have stated you voting against the resolutions back in January was correct and the other 93million votes thought the same as me!You've stated you own £3.5k worth of stock and yet post here to such lengths, you've become clouded by your own conspiracy theories.EGM tomorrow...lets see how many have followed your lead. I could argue that it's you in cohorts with Guy and Ofer as all you're doing is giving them more % as they'll be taking up any options that others don't take. You claim you don't want them to have a higher % ownership and yet it's precisely what you're handing to them. Perverse to say the least.

[markt] 13/12/2012 14:02

Knigel
I dont really care about when the EGM is.....I voted weeks ago...via nominee co.

NO and
NO.

I have done my work.....organised a group with around 5%, publicised what I think is going on...and how the dirs. are acting for their own benefit and AGAINST the interests of the shareholders. ANd I have achieved that many people agree with some of the points I have raised...and I think that everyone is reading the offer doc. much more carefully.

And information has been submitted to the FSA and SFO.

And to some IIs.

And to national press.

ANd attempt has been made to add Value Investments to our mini group.

ANd I note that some other people say that they also intend to vote no.
---

What % of these have been or will be successful, I dont know. SOme may be in progress in private.

At least I tried.

----

As I wrote once
" I can lead a horse to water, but I cant make it drink"

(if I went to the EGM....there a chance that someone might get thrown out of a window or something.....and I'm fairly big, so it wouldnt be me !!)

---

Ive got ripped of by directors before.....if same happens at OCH...I'll just add it to my list.

SFI Group
Regent Inns
Cafe Inns
Probus (property co. .....assets vanished !!)
Voyager IT
Griffin

sadly anyone invested in London mkts for over 10 years will have their own list. Widespread.

[markt] 13/12/2012 13:56

imho
beware of R & T

imo he appears to be part of the OCH/SHore Capital system......who both would benefit by the share offer vote being yes and yes and taking place
(SHore have made millions from OCH raising 50M pnds over the years...and they made millions by being big investor in OCH pre-IPO....at much lower share price)
---

R & T a few weeks ago said that he changed his mind and agreed with me !.....that the vote in FEb. should have been NO....and that no 30M profit in 2009 was actually made.

Now he has changed his mind again....and is claiming that I was wrong to vote NO in FEb. !!

Strange !
The dirs. or SHore Capital are twisting his arm to get him to change his views ?


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"roughandtumbleone 12 Dec'12 - 11:04 - 8951 of 8963 0 0

Knigel,

This is a man who was trying to pull off a "no" vote back in January and failed miserably by circa 10,000 shares following Mark's lead and over 93m shares voting in favour."

[markt] 13/12/2012 13:50

Timtim
"I feel for Markt I know he is hurting here so am I"


I am hurting due to the principle of feeling that I am being robbed by the dirs.
and imo that they are liars....and that the offer doc. is imo an intentional misrepresentation of the truth

I only have around 3k pnds at stake......160k shares at average of around 3-3.5p...and I always posted that I saw OCH as a punt, high risk that may go bust....

but I still expect(ed) dirs. to try to work for the general benefit of all shareholders (as required in the UK by the Company Act)

rather than try to transfer the company to be owned by them in return for their salaries !
---

I have only been a vulture at OCH, picking up 2/3rd of my shares at 2p
while other people paid 90p or 139p to put in cash for those same shares.
They should be furious about this share offer imo.

---
I am only 1 small voice......the key part is imo what the IIs decide.
At least I have highlighted various numbers and points...and I think various people are aware (including IIs) and some agree.

[markt] 13/12/2012 13:38

Timtim
From the FT past. I AM SURE WE WILL FIND A WAY!!! GUY WORDS not mine.

"We're one of the only international developers that are still active in the country,"

----

imho...
sadly these words mean nothing....from the view of a SHAREHOLDER
at the end of the day....it is the numbers that matter...

if a company can not keep any creditors happy then the creditors may/will take the assets of the company....leaving nothing for shareholders


OCH can not pay its directors (mega salaries, bleeding OCH dry) not workers nor contractors. (ref. offer document)

You can choose to believe words given to the press, or the words given in the offer document. (and the offer doc. is a load of rubbish anyway, misrepresentation of the truth imo)
----

Note, dirs. can buy the company for peanuts or for their salaries.....and maybe they can get some money back from OCH....and maybe they can continue to operate the K company that provides the cafes in the GM and perhaps manage the GM and manage Orchid Gdns and the hotel (because the bankers will still need someone to act as managers if they take over any assets)....

doesnt mean that you as an OCH shareholder would get any piece of the pie !

if offer process goes ahead....then most assets will be in hands of the 2 dirs...not yours
----

The dirs. recently lent money to OCH ....and secured the loan by a first mortgage on OCH land.

in case no one understands.....that means that that land is no longer owned by you the shareholder...but...is owned by the directors.

that land may 'continue'...as dirs. said to the Times...but you as a shareholder would have no part of it

Sadly it seems that few, or none (except me and 1 or 2 others) appear able to understand the offer document and other news text. (if you complain 6 or 12 months later, be too late)

----

SFI Group was a lovely company....great record of profit growth.....rampant share price....
in the end the creditors took the company and shareholders got zero. Many similar cases. Lesson ? Take care with words. Believe real cash sent back to you or "real" profits (NOT OCH dcf calculations !) or real cash supporting a share price !

[markt] 13/12/2012 13:29

"I see that Supercart (SC.), another AIM tiddler, has decided it can't afford it's AIM listing and so is cancelling it."

imho it wouldnt surprise me if OCH did the same......noting that it can not even pay its directors or workers (ref. offer document)

[lazarus2010] 13/12/2012 13:18

saw this and thought it might be of interest to know your rights in case of sales/purchases not being at market value...


cranial
13 Dec'12 - 12:16 - 139172 of 139182 0 0


Fraud on the minority
4.7 After setting out the fraud on the minority exception to the rule in Foss v Harbottle, the Court of Appeal in Edwards v Halliwell explained why the exception is necessary. This explanation was set out as follows in Prudential Assurance Co Ltd v Newman Industries Ltd (No 2):

(5) There is an exception to the rule where what has been done amounts to fraud and the wrongdoers are themselves in control of the company. In this case the rule is relaxed in favour of the aggrieved minority, who are allowed to bring a minority shareholders' action on behalf of themselves and all others. The reason for this is that, if they were denied that right, their grievance could never reach the court because the wrongdoers themselves, being in control, would not allow the company to sue.
4.8 We will now consider what constitutes "fraud" and "control". We will then examine the circumstances in which the courts have held that if an "independent organ" of the company does not wish the action to proceed, an individual shareholder may be prevented from pursuing his action even though it is within the exception.

Fraud
4.9 "Fraud" in this context means "... fraud in the wider equitable sense of that term". Essentially, the term encompasses situations such as "... where the majority are endeavouring directly or indirectly to appropriate to themselves money, property or advantages which belong to the company or in which other shareholders are entitled to participate ...". Therefore, attempts by the majority to sell worthless assets to the company, to divert business from the company to themselves in breach of fiduciary duty, or to compromise litigation against bodies in which the majority are interested on terms prejudicial to the company have all been held to amount to "fraud" in this context, entitling minority shareholders to bring derivative actions.

[timtim5449] 13/12/2012 12:50

I AM SURE WE WILL FIND A WAY!! Guys words not mine.


"We're one of the only international developers that are still active in the country," said Guy Meyohas, the Israeli co-founder and chief executive. "There are others that didn't survive. I'm sure we'll find a way. Whatever is needed."
Mr Meyohas indicated he may be willing to invest more of his personal wealth to support Orchid, which is advised by Shore Capital.
The other big shareholders aside from Ofer Miretzky, the other founder, include Midas Capital Partners, Progressive Asset Management and Henderson Global Investors. The main lenders are two Hungarian banks, MKB and OTP.

[timtim5449] 13/12/2012 12:48

From the FT past. I AM SURE WE WILL FIND A WAY!!! GUY WORDS not mine.

"We're one of the only international developers that are still active in the country," said Guy Meyohas, the Israeli co-founder and chief executive. "There are others that didn't survive. I'm sure we'll find a way. Whatever is needed."
Mr Meyohas indicated he may be willing to invest more of his personal wealth to support Orchid, which is advised by Shore Capital.
The other big shareholders aside from Ofer Miretzky, the other founder, include Midas Capital Partners, Progressive Asset Management and Henderson Global Investors. The main lenders are two Hungarian banks, MKB and OTP.

[markt] 13/12/2012 12:27

...one -ve factor for your Varna holiday flat is the montly admin. charge....was it 1.2 Euros/month.
For 50m2 that 60euros/month. If there are any other charges as well.....VAT or an increase after first year....then maybe 70E next year
...not much change out of 1000 EUros/year

(for a Bulgarian....I think it is expensive....not so many people in Varna can afford it imo.....but if the pool is operating then someone has to pay for it...)

whereas you could probably rent for a month for that price in Eastern Europe...or 2 weeks for holiday apartment close to beach

[bumpkinroll] 12/12/2012 19:44

joeblogg - Thanks. Cannot attend due to being my busiest business week of the year.

Questions:
- what hope to the BoD have of disposing of any assets next year when they've achieved nothing this year?
- why have no assets been placed in auction? even with a 30% discount to NAV, any sale received would have achieved would have prevented the current requirement which has wrecked shareholder confidence.
- how can you still grant yourselves huge salaries when the company is on it's knees?

Thanks JB, any efforts are greatly appreciated. Look forward to your feedback.

Good luck.



Best

[knigel] 12/12/2012 17:31

I suppose MarkT point(s) about is it a plan to get to 75% of shares held by directors to delist the company or to "seize" the valuable assets from existing shareholders is a start. Also how will due loan repayments be made and how are asset sales progressing? Cheers

[joeblogg2] 12/12/2012 16:45

Please list questions and I will put them to the BOD. I hope R&T and others with substantial holdings can attend!!

[knigel] 12/12/2012 16:40

No sadly not in London until the afternoon. Might be worth preparing 1/2 questions to ask?

[joeblogg2] 12/12/2012 16:37

I should be going to the EGM as Barclays have confirmed my attendance and can vote on the day. Anyone else attending?

[timtim5449] 12/12/2012 16:33

I get the feeling we PIs are feeling worse for wears here, it seems we are all in this mess some how lets hope really hope it turns good for us. I feel for Markt I know he is hurting here so am I What can I/we do? just hope there is a rabbit in Guys bag an pray. Gl all.

[luckynickyboy] 12/12/2012 15:26

..is why he is filtered :-)

[loverat] 12/12/2012 14:03

Well, it is always nice to have any information that people can post here. You also have to remember that all the negative points have to be considered in the context of the very low share price and the fact this is AIM which is an unregulated financial market.

Personally, the barrage of markt posts here (whether they are right or wrong) have clouded the immediate issues here and are not relevant to many people at present.

[roughandtumbleone] 12/12/2012 13:57

"Reassuring conversations with Shore"????I posted the email conversation with Bhidi Bhoma of Shore, so people could see what response had been given to certain questions and the same is true of the email response to my specific question I sent to Guy and the subsequent response that I posted. The info was there to read and whether you take that seriously is your call Jack. I merely relayed the info

[jack1236] 12/12/2012 12:16

Rough

Can you take these directors seriously? Just look at the announcements earlier in the year, they are so predictable. It could be that they are just incompetent.
No forward planning whatsoever, if plan 'A' don't work, right there's plan 'B',
if plan 'B' doesn't work, we have plan 'C', but they only have plan 'A'. They have been forced to suspend the shares. The new Chairman has lots of experience where this share is going.

PS. all your reassuring conversations with Shore, look where we are, can we take you seriously?

[roughandtumbleone] 12/12/2012 11:04

Knigel,This is a man who was trying to pull off a "no" vote back in January and failed miserably by circa 10,000 shares following Mark's lead and over 93m shares voting in favour.He now is on a crusade this time round and was attempting to persuade Henderson, Progressive, Midas and Value Investments to take him seriously and yet he doesn't know the date of the EGM or the exact debt aligned to the GM. He attempts to value an asset and yet I'm assuming he's not a member of RICS and he laughs at Colliers and MBLs valuations. He fails to take into account a property value is not just the rental income multiplied by x but a consideration of location, amenities, intrinsic property value i,e. cost to build such a development. He also has zero info on the rental stream, break clauses and uplifts. How can anyone take seriously such ramblings.He then moves on to conspiracy theories that Bellport have manipulated a short position with their own stock.. and accuses me for working at Shore, MBL or with OCH's Board of Directors!Who actually takes him or Beth seriously?

[knigel] 11/12/2012 22:24

Thanks! (btw please see my comment on the hhr thread tonight)

[loverat] 11/12/2012 22:17

Usually very in hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. Snow usually falls in more mountainous areas. Best time to go - Spring.