Lloyds Banking Share Discussion Threads

[xxxxxy] 21/12/2020 10:25

EXCLUSIVE: Christmas backing for Brexit from Swiss Movement"Let us stay strong," says Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland. "We are confident that the UK will succeed and prosper outside the EU."?© Brexit Facts4EU.Org 2020Facts4EU.Org presents a Brexit message to readers from our Eurosceptic friends in SwitzerlandBrexit Facts4EU.Org is pleased to bring you a guest article from a major Swiss Eurosceptic organisation. In their article, this Swiss independence movement provides another country's perspective on the EU – and life outside it.The article below comes from the Board of the Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland (AUNS/ASIN/ASNI) and has been written for Facts4EU.Org readers. The AUNS is non-partisan and has around 25,000 members. In comparative UK population terms this equates to nearly 200,000 members – more than almost all UK political parties."LET US STAY STRONG"A message from the Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland[Note: Sub-headings and emboldening of text are by Facts4EU.Org]Dear Editors, and dear readers of Facts4EU,Almost exactly 28 years ago, on 6 December 1992, the Swiss voted against joining the European Economic Area (EEA). Voter turnout was a very high 78%. It was a decision for independence, self-reliance, and a vote to stay away from the diktats of the EU.It was a decision which has served Switzerland very well.The Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland was instrumental in that 1992 vote and many of our members remember those days and are ready to take up the fight again. And we will most likely have to do so (see further below).The parallels with Brexit are strikingJust like with Brexit, before the vote we were told of the impending economic doom should we refuse to join the EEA. Virtually all business and opinion leaders, the Swiss government, and politicians from all parties (with one exception), warned us that:Overall unemployment would rise dramatically;Youth unemployment would soar;Multi-national companies would relocate their business or leave the country altogether;That only a vote to join the EEA would be a vote for prosperity;And that otherwise our country would be isolated.And just like with Brexit, after the vote was cast, virtually all politicians and the entire commentariat lamented the 'mistaken' decision. One of our federal councillors even branded the day a 'dark Sunday' for Switzerland, and a 'dark Sunday for all young Swiss'.The Swiss version of 'Project Fear' proved just as wrong as the UK versionEver since the vote, Swiss politics has been polarised (as with the issue of losers' consent over Brexit) on the issue of European integration. And the question of how much alignment with the EU is appropriate has been continually a matter of political debates and votes.Of the economic doom predictions uttered in the early 1990s, however, none ever materialised.In some sense, it was and still is easier for Switzerland than it is now for the UK. Thanks to the foresight and diligence of Swiss diplomat Paul Jolles, Switzerland has had a free trade agreement (FTA) with the EU (then the EC) since 1972. And the agreement does not have a 'guillotine clause', which would allow the EU to exert political pressure on Switzerland.In a way, this is the kind of FTA that the UK is now trying to negotiate for itself. But there is also the other perspective on things: landlocked Switzerland is surrounded by EU nations, and does not have a Commonwealth to turn to. And Switzerland is a small country with a small internal market; it is not the second largest economy in Europe as is the United Kingdom. Its leveraging power in negotiations is not comparable.?The EU's attempts at 'judicial imperialism' over Switzerland echo those over the UKNowadays, the EU wants Switzerland to accept a new so called Framework Agreement which would put Switzerland's many bilateral agreements with the EU into a single framework. As part of this agreement the European Court of Justice will become the final arbiter in matters of dispute between Switzerland and the EU.Professor Carl Baudenbacher, former President of the EFTA court, pointed out that granting the ECJ such powers outside the EU's jurisdiction is a concept the EU originally developed for Ukraine, Moldovia and Georgia; countries which expressed interest to join the EU eventually. Whilst countries that wish to join the EU may be willing to grant the ECJ such extra-territorial powers, it is an imperialistic manoeuvre to place such conditions to trade negotiations with countries that do not wish to join or indeed wish to leave the EU.It should be self-evident that democratic and economically strong countries like yours and ours should simply walk away from negotiations whenever such proposals of 'judicial imperialism' are made.The EU's deplorable negotiating spirit was also highlighted in an episode in 2019. Back then, the EU had threatened to withdraw the equivalence license of the Swiss börse [stock exchange], because the negotiations on the Framework Agreement had not progressed sufficiently – not sufficiently in the eyes of the EU, of course! The Swiss government however did not succumb to this threat, and even though the EU eventually withdrew the equivalence license, not much came of it in the end.The EU fears the UK's post-Brexit prosperityIn his Greenwich speech, in February 2020, Prime Minister Johnson stated that the UK is "re-emerging after decades of hibernation as a campaigner for global free trade."He rightly spoke of the right of the populations of the earth "to buy and sell freely among each other". And that "if countries learn to specialise and exchange then overall wealth will increase and productivity will increase".?And this is the heart of the matter: The EU fears that the UK will prosper once it has left the EU, and thus it is in the EU's interest to minimise the chances of a positive outcome for the UK. It is for the same reason that Switzerland is not 'liked' by the EU; she has dared to be outside the EU and she has been successful.Switzerland and the UK share challenges of sovereignty, independence and freedomBoth our countries face significant challenges to retain our sovereignty, independence and freedom. It is not a surprise that the two countries with the deepest roots in democracy and federalism (on this side of the Atlantic) demonstrate the strongest resistance against the EU's super-state ambitions.We should never forget the parallels and the similarities of our two countries; indeed we should always strive for good relations. For Switzerland, we hope that we will be able to avoid a Framework Agreement with the EU that would put our country under the spell of the ECJ.We are confident that the UK will succeed and prosper outside the EU, and we certainly wish your country well. For the sake of sovereignty, trade and peace, let us stay strong.Sincerely,The Board of the Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland.About the AUNS"By way of introduction, we are a non-partisan political organisation founded in 1986 with the aim to support Swiss independence, neutrality and direct democracy. Our organisation currently has about 25,000 members. [In UK population terms this would be the equivalent of close to 200,000 – Ed.] We publish news bulletins in all three official Swiss languages."Sovereignty, democracy, and independence are topics that are highly relevant to our organisation. We have always fought for the sovereignty of Switzerland and against joining the EU."Website (in German, French and Italian)OBSERVATIONSWe would like to thank the Board of the Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland for their kind, supportive message to the people of the United Kingdom.The continual fight for independence from the EU is something shared between many people in Switzerland and in the UK. The details and nuances are of course different, but we hope readers will find some of the common messages from our Swiss friends interesting

[cheshire pete] 21/12/2020 10:22

History repeats itself.

[xxxxxy] 21/12/2020 10:22

FTSE - 2.11DAX - 3CAC - 2.91We OK

[poikka] 21/12/2020 10:22

Like taking candy, again.

[poikka] 21/12/2020 10:21

Minnie - "You can continue WW2 if you like. Some of us have grown up."

Not, apparently, in France, or haven't you read the news this morning?

[xxxxxy] 21/12/2020 10:19

World Economy centres around COVID, here, there, and everywhere. That is the top and bottom of it. Brexit is not the central issue.Actually Brexit is good and positive for the U.KNo DealWTOLiberty

[minerve 2] 21/12/2020 10:17

Cheshire

You can continue WW2 if you like. Some of us have grown up.

[bargainbob] 21/12/2020 10:13

Brexit eh?
We've just spent 5 years at war with each other, devalued the £ by 20%, savaged our economy, quit the world's largest free trade zone, created a mountain of red tape & flushed £200bn down the drain to 'control our borders'. 6 EU states just did it in 24 hours with a press release

[xxxxxy] 21/12/2020 10:13

The Reform Party

[xxxxxy] 21/12/2020 10:12

France want to blockade. Then we Boycott the EUSSR Absolutely NO FISH from British waters for the EUSSR.No. No. No.No DealWTOLiberty

[xxxxxy] 21/12/2020 10:10

Peter Barnes15 Dec 2020 1:16PMHere's a list of UK Companies that have been transferred to other countries using EU grants. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK.Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.ICI integration into Holland's AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, brought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.Name one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.... Daily Telegraph

[xxxxxy] 21/12/2020 10:09

FTSE 100 - 1.8DAX - 2.6CAC - 2.76.SoNo DealWTOLiberty

[alphorn] 21/12/2020 10:06

cheshire - that was a particularly nasty post.

How many of your relatives are still in France under a cross; how many of your relatives had awards for bravery; how many of your relatives were born in a concentration camp?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[cheshire pete] 21/12/2020 10:05

.....other than most of our manufacturing....

This is highly significant though josh as it was aided by EU grants making it attractive for manufacturers to re-locate to mainland Europe.

...and our leaders sat by and watched it happen. Thank goodness we had Farage to wake everyone up to the reality.

[xxxxxy] 21/12/2020 10:02

Would not buy French wine now. Even if you paid me.No DealWTOLiberty

[josh 32] 21/12/2020 09:59

The EU we joined was group of nations that were similar economies and living standards to us and we did not lose a lot other than most of our manufacturing but the EU we're trying to escape from is a group of 27 nations in which at least half are bankrupt corrupt failed states which will need financial assistance for at least the next ten years or until they are actually responsible western style democracies

[cheshire pete] 21/12/2020 09:56

Patriotism timeless Alphorn, not here today gone tomorrow. Our people died protecting us from German tyranny.