Iofina Share Discussion Threads

[joestalin] 18/6/2014 14:28

"I know we live in a cruelly capitalistic world" - utter tosh!

Capitalism is ultimately benign. Read about Adam smith's 'unseen hand' - if the Indians have trouble looking after their billions of hungry mouths, they need to reduce their output, (but not by hanging their women) and not artificially fix prices. All that that achieves is a black market.

There is a compelling economic case for IOF building plants in the third world, but that is a different argument.

[n3tleylucas] 18/6/2014 14:26

Hey Bogg1e,

The debt is clearly designed to convert to stock, otherwise it would not have been offered on convertible terms.

Cash is king here, not stock.

[bogg1e] 18/6/2014 14:20

Sure it would push it up, but Im not sure economics would be allowed a free reign, what about political pressure from countries like India, if iodine prices get too high to be affordable for basic needs like nutrition and healthcare? I know we live in a cruelly capitalistic world in which the highest bidder wins, but surely market forces alone wouldn't be allowed to dictate the iodine price or the applications it can be used for? Or am I just being naive?

[monts12] 18/6/2014 14:16

What would that do to the Iodine price though?

[bogg1e] 18/6/2014 13:54

Also, I have my doubts about other intensive uses of iodine in future tech like batteries. Lets face it, 30k ton per year, all of which is bought up rapidly by existing customers for existing products. Even if there wasn't going to be a global shortfall given the Chilean situation, where would the excess iodine come from? I think Che7 mentioned that Iofinas iodine chemicals dont require a lot of iodine per derivative. I beg to differ, the main derivatives listed on Iofinas website contain 65-95%+ iodine. So wheres the extra iodine going to come from? In theory only IOF can grow to meet demand, but at the current rate of growth and given a shortfall over the coming years, IOF wont be able to meet the shortfall, let alone the volumes required for new emerging technology.

PS Perhaps if Lance's original plan had been followed and cash better spent, IOF may have been able to meet the shortfall, but his plan must be about 2 years behind schedule now.

[bogg1e] 18/6/2014 13:48

Hi Netters, i mentioned it cos I went through the notes compiled from various posters feedback from the AGM, and one person stated words to the effect that "Iofina looking to convert some of the debt". I was seeking clarification, my first thought was debt for equity, but wanted to be sure cos a stand alone sentence out of context can be misinterpreted.

[n3tleylucas] 18/6/2014 13:43

Did someone mention a debt4equity swap? Oh dear... looks like there was never any intention for IOF to repay Arron & Chris. When will Chris's $15m terms be revised though? Arron?

[n3tleylucas] 18/6/2014 13:37

'note Lance says our margins are very strong'

I wonder...

[superg1] 18/6/2014 13:33

I know there are plenty of other battery types being researched but all the money seems to going towards lithium variations.

Clearly it will be aggressive rather than dabbling, among the contenders is the next holy grail in the battery market.

[che7win] 18/6/2014 11:32

Tesla have opened up all their patents up to the competition to grow the market.

They are also opening the worlds biggest lithium battery factory in the US.

[engelo] 18/6/2014 11:22

Neddo: read somewhere that Tesla have sold 27000 cars to date whereas GM sell 27000 per day ;-). So they have work to do :-)

[neddo] 18/6/2014 10:31

Electric car, with light aluminium-air battery, travels 1,100 miles on a single charge, take note Tesla
View Photo
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Pocket-lint/Luke Edwards - Electric car, with light aluminium-air battery, travels 1,100 miles on a single charge, take note Tesla

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An electric car has been tested that managed a huge 1,100 mile range on a single charge. A massive jump from current electric cars like the Tesla Model S which tops out at around 300 miles.

The secret to this super range is a type of battery technology called aluminium-air. This uses oxygen naturally occurring in the air to fill it's cathode. This makes it far lighter than liquid filled lithium-ion batteries to give car a far greater range.

Phinergy, who created the battery, is an Israeli company who worked with aluminium specialist Alcoa Canada to create the batteries. To keep costs low the batteries were made in Canada where hydro-electricity is rife, making manufacturing more affordable.

Aluminium-air batteries drain turning the metal into aluminium hydroxide which can then be recycled to make new batteries. That will mean swapping out batteries every few months. But since it's so much lighter and cheaper than current efforts it should offer huge mileage and be affordable.

Tesla has already demoed its battery swap-out service which would automatically do it in just 90-seconds. All the drivers would need to do would be to add tap water every month or two to help feed the reaction.

The test car used also had lithium-ion batteries working in a sort of hybrid battery. The proposed end result would be a car that uses lithium-ion for short range drives and has the aluminium-air battery kick in for long hauls. This would preserve the life of both batteries while keeping weight down and maximising range.

It may still be a while before we see these batteries in cars but at the rate Tesla is moving anything is possible

[superg1] 18/6/2014 10:00

Mr Big

You certainly have a good case there re batteries.

I've been doing some digging. The big interest in lithium for the future is electric cars. Various big companies are getting involved in the lithium sector, including tech giants taking a stake.

Most will know of Tesla who are huge in this industry. SQM excitement around Tesla and lithium caused the price to bounce
Well the fact is, a group of 300 scientists have stated that lithium ion batteries are not the future in that regard.

They don't hold enough of a charge, restrict mileage and take a long time to re-charge.

While they may sell some lithium ion cars, the car market had no faith in lithium ion batteries providing any decent market share of the auto-mobile market.

The race seem to be on to develop a lithium based battery with far better performance

[haggismchaggis] 18/6/2014 09:58

Vote and share, please.http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/62851

[superg1] 18/6/2014 08:25

On the Japanese point, Toyota who took a stake of 25%n in Algorta Norte Iodine, have since taken a 25% stake in what will be another big lithium player in Argentina.

Marubeni another in the mix did a supply agreement in January 2013 with RB energy re lithium. They have noticed and are acting.

The natural step if they see lithium iodide as the future is for the others to take stakes in iodine.

Chile Water

An aspect I hadn't considered for the near term which just got triggered by this headline out yesterday

"Chile lawmakers push for free water rights for indigenous groups"

It covers the reforms coming in, it would seem SQM and co would have to pay for those rights they have to extract water, so it seems potentially costs will go up pre seawater pipelines needed.

As I understand it water was free, but it carries a value, I assume in the case of any holder to sell their rights to another, should they wish to do so.

The indigenous groups already have rights, so the above would seem to be the case. The cost rises look closer than I thought.

SQM, RB energy and Cosayach use fresh water. I think it was said that Bullmine truck in seawater and that's why their costs are so high, clearly no fresh water is available to them.

[mister big] 18/6/2014 07:17

The chile situation is interesting . The research I read on lithium iodide batteries suggested it was only realistic option for electric car batteries and that a major research was being funded in the uk despite comments on japan / Korea . There is also a lot of work going into mobile phone batteries - curiously the electric car angle might actually help Chilean producer that also produces lithium !
I think key strategic investors ( Japanese) In this area will be looking to secure iodine supplies for the future and demand for iodine will grow . Iof is a nice company at. 50 dollars a kg and with a low cost base can operate very well in this environment.

[che7win] 17/6/2014 21:55

The iodine derivatives business is a 'closed' business anyway, end customers tend to stick with suppliers.

End customers are very reluctant to change because

1: the end product has to go through compliance and once an iodine supplier is chosen, it creates a risk to change supplier.

2: the end product usually uses so little iodine that a price rise has little impact on end prices.

[superg1] 17/6/2014 21:27

See..... a can of worms



We have developed highly efficient, ambient temperature, solid-state ionic conductors (SSICs) for dye-sensitized solar cells (DSSCs) by doping a molecular plastic crystal, succinonitrile (SN), with trialkyl-substituted imidazolium iodide salts.

The performance of our solid-state DSSCs is, to the best of our knowledge, the highest reported thus far for cells using plastic crystal-based SSICs, and is comparable to that of the state-of-the-art DSSCs which use ionic liquid type electrolytes.

As said iodine is a bit of a wonder element that can't be copied synthetically and it's growth in demand is being driven by technology,



Basically it looks like good old iodine is finding a use in a new generation of solar cells, and we know how popular they will become.

[1madmarky] 17/6/2014 21:19

Regarding the report, note Lance says our margins are very strong. This does not mean we did not aggressively under cut rivals to permanently take market share away from them, does it. We had stock, we needed cash and we have better costs than our rivals. Lance is too tight with money to give the stuff away, he would have got a good price for the product. Aimho

[superg1] 17/6/2014 21:15

Mr Big

The battery prompt is turning into a bit of a can of worms of super ionic conductors and much more.

It looks like there is a conference shortly are the battery topic, lithium superionic conductors.

acssi2014.org/Conference_Programme.pdf

Interestingly in that presentation list it includes topics of

"Optimization of iodide ion conductivity in electrolytes for dye sensitized solar cells"

I didn't know about that one and how interesting in a world of growing solar panels I thought iodine would phase out on those.

"(84) E.Ekanayake et al. ; Electrical Characterisation of Tetrabutylamonium̴8;iodide‐based polymer free gel electrolyte

Where's Gad?

[superg1] 17/6/2014 20:57

I hadn't heard the rumour. No doubt the usual lot lying behind the scenes to fit what they want no doubt.

Something was said a few weeks back they never seemed to surface but that was a complete load of tosh too.

Perhaps IOF had a call to suggest the rumour had come about.

The fact is indmin said no one is selling at 40 or above recently, but at the AGM IOF said they has sold some raw iodine at $42 per kg.

As I keep saying such folk should have the * mark in any report.

* Any contents which turn out to be true, are purely coincidental.

IOF chem div have customers from years back and they fit into a niche sector in many cases. EG Lampricide with only 2 suppliers, electronic gases, and some products that are unique and not even listed.

[bobsworth] 17/6/2014 20:42

Thanks for the update RUGRAT2. Iam glad now I used the words possible sites in my post! Knowing they are wanting to target rich ppms sites I think these are the sites to look out for the appearance of mini pads. Goodluck