Iofina Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 22/7/2013 14:46

Boggle

They won't do 800mt this year, post io2/3 they don't need to buy in any iodine for the Chem div.

I understand they did a bulk purchase, at the end of last year/early this year to cover needs while they got plants up and running.

The 800mt comment comes from a question about the capacity of the current chem div plant.

With added shifts and lines, they believe they can expand up to 800mt used for derivatives. They have land for future expansion at the location which they bought some time back.

Then they mentioned a market of 1600mt for iodine 'cake', which will be the raw product. Anything beyond that would need to be prilled iodine, hence the mention of a prilling facility some time in the future.

IMO they should not pursue the Chemical division aggressively on derivatives, as that would really grab the attention of some big Chem divs. While it may improve margins, there doesn't appear to be a need to do that if they can produce the raw product so much cheaper than the others.

IMO just go for mass production on the raw product side, and grab end user customers that way. It would be a far more swift way of gaining revenues.

A large expansion into the derivatives side would take time to pick off customers, and attract too much attention from the big chem guys.

IOF have their own niche high margin products, so best to expand those.

Th

[noli] 22/7/2013 14:41

IOF stopped buying end of Jan this year, as for derivatives and 800 tons, its all guess work at the mo. What we do know is they intend making some product in the field at IO#2 so that may take some capacity away from IOC, they will imho produce as much as they can at IOC. They could double up some shifts etc, they also have the facility in Montana which is the emergency backup facility which they could expand too if required.

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 14:28

sorry sg1, just saw your post. Cheers.

I am now totally confused. I know we are applying for rights in Montana (Atlantis) and North Dakota. North Dakota for reasons already explained is on the back burner for now.

So, Atlantis...expecting rights for first of 3 x 75,000 bdp plants by end july (28th). Customer Halliburton for cold and/or hot water. I assumed that this water source is actually underground and requires drilling to access. Is this correct? I have an iodine ppm at 50-70 for the atlantis water asset so i assume drilled. Or is this the old licence permit?
and therefore is there a new permit whereby Iofina extract the water from a river???

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 14:23

In regard to iodine derivatives, do we know if Iofina will process 800 tons this year (which is the production limit for derivatives)? Also, do we know whether the iodine used for chemical derivatives still includes stock bought in or is all iodine now supplied by IO#1 and 2? Tia.

[superg1] 22/7/2013 14:22

Boggle don't get confused re the water.

The current water permit application has nothing to do with Atlantis. It's simply like any other US application for water rights.

Just imagine you are a water supplier and a company wants water from you. You show the council you have a customer that wants x amount of water per day.

You then sort a land purchase, or lease next to the river and set up an available extraction point.

Then subject to approval you extract water free from your local river and charge the customer for the service.

It wouldn't happen over here and that's why it's confusing to us, but that's the way it is in the US.

If the customer wants hot water, you just heat it on your site.

The heat tech pumps at the same rate as cold water, so 120 barrel trucks can be filled at the same rate whether the water is hot or cold.

I mention Atlantis, and the rights swap, as no other player in the business has that available back up plan.

Currently some suppliers of water in Montana and North Dakota are on temporary permits. That was an emergency measure taken to afford supply to the Oil and gas industry.

The water bureau's have temporarily allowed the sale of irrigation rights water for industrial use. That is a downgrade in rights and isn't normally allowed, hence it's temporary.

The USFW rights relate to use's below industrial use, and can be upgraded, which is allowed under the rules.

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 14:00

noli thanks. That is interesting, given that the highest figure i have seen quoted for a new well head is 5000 bpd, but which within a year drops off considerably, pods could be used alongside existing plants at key points in the wells production cycle very effectively. 7k is about 25% of a standard IO plant, but comes at 1/10th of the cost of the same plant ($200k vs $1.5-2m). Sweet.

[mudbath] 22/7/2013 13:55

Byotrol(BYOT)
imo.An intriguing Company/product,said to be the most important anti microbial formulation patented over the past 100 years.
There is tremendous interest in Byotrol from the World Heath Organisation,along with initial usage this year by the likes of ADM,M&S,RentokilInitial,Albaad etc.
Revenues are now accelerating with the company forecast to become cash flow positive in the short term..
At this moment,with the shares hovering around a twelve month low,they bear particular scrutiny.
AGM this week(Thursday)will surely see a hugely positive outlook statement.
Currently unable to buy online,yet the stock is generally well traded and fairly liquid.
Cheers,mudbath.
(Thanks to sg1 and others I have benefited through my investments in IOF.)

[noli] 22/7/2013 13:53

7k Bogg1e, unless thats changed, old tech was 10k if i remember correctly.

[noli] 22/7/2013 13:52

It's all to do with the concentrate comment, apparently the iodine can be concentrated. Imho iof are doing something with Veolia, but i don't know what. It may be the Opus II but that's a guess on my part, it could also be recycling the brine once the ppm has been removed to sell the cleaned water back to thefracking industry.

[sandbag] 22/7/2013 13:49

Just spoke to my broker and he confirmed that they will be accepting IOF shares into ISAs on the 5th of August. Rather selfishly I wouldn't mind the share price going down until then to allow my wife and I to put a higher number of our shares into ISAs. I really can't see there being no good news before then however.

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 13:48

Does anyone know the maximum bpd a truck mounted pod can process? Tia

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 13:23

Noli, your link implies a JV would be with a company that uses its own technology rather than IOF's. Surely IOF would want thier own technology employed? Scratch that, of course a JV! Doh. Iofina wouldnt have the spare equipment to do it cos any new production equipment is intended for Oklahoma. Doh squared!

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 13:20

When did IO#2 come online this year? Was it april? Thanks

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 13:12

Noli thanks.

[superg1] 22/7/2013 13:09

Moor

I see coms is to do with software, I wouldn't know where to start and it's such a difficult sector to value.

I had been looking at ATUK as they seem to have systems that could achieve savings for many. In particular In Aus they seem to be in market that has nothing to compete with. It's one I watch, but I wasn't overly impressed by the CEO's apparent daft comment about £50m in 3 to 5 years time.

That's what I like about IOF, it's a simple system of numbers, in a growing market, and we can work out where any likely competition will come from.

Re the 'other thread' issue. There is no point me sending links to new posters as the site owner won't allow unknowns onto it.

For regular names I can do a bit of digging, to confirm the authenticity of some, but it takes quite some time, and hard to concentrate on with nice weather and golf clubs that need some fresh air.

As said it's a bit a of trial at the moment, and all done kindly by the very busy site owner who gains nothing, for the extra work.

I have done a bit of research into other public sites, and it seems they are all full of junk and trolls, with little control.

So patience please. Obvious long termers shouldn't be an issue, but the access isn't controlled by me.

I already have a list 'rejected' that I need to go through to make sure they are genuine, and satisfy the site owner etc.

Difficult to do with a daughter nagging me to get her suitcase down, so that she can pack for a holiday. Plus a son saying 'What's for lunch Dad'.

Hunger satisfied, and suitcase set nicely in a convenient place, the 'I'm bored' should start. Can't wait :-).

[noli] 22/7/2013 13:06

Also check out the Opus II.

[noli] 22/7/2013 12:59

IOF have a stripping plant near to the Atlantis field, my guess would be they will extract iodine if they can do, otherwise its lost revenue re iodine, the word concentrate keeps popping up on the extraction side so i guess IF they ever decide to produce from the Atlantis we may see some type of JV.

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 12:55

Cool, thanks chaps. That's quite a lot to take in and i still have a few question marks! So in regard to Atlantis, if I understand correctly, Iofina will simply pump the water into the reservoir without extracting the iodine. What are the chances that any of this water will be resold as heated water at much higher margins? If Halliburton (the customer) requires hot water for fracking, is there an immediate need for the atlantis water to be heated? Tia.

[superg1] 22/7/2013 12:29

The Fresno reservoir where the Atlantis acreage is. IOF have a pumping station (wall corner) there about 1.5 miles from the Fresno. They have brine pipelines too for disposal.

That's all IOF was just 3 years back, gas and iodine from Atlantis. It has become a load more lucrative since then.

However IOF now have over 100 sites available that are better than Atlantis for iodine. So the Atlantis water has become an asset as water is scarce in that area.

Apparently lawyers told IOF trying to achieve a discharge permit was impossible, and therefore pointless pursuing it. IOF have that discharge permit, which then enabled the rights swap agreement.

That is all back pocket stuff as the current water permit application is nothing to do with the rights swap, it's just an application for rights like any other application.

The rights swap can be used in the future if ever water rights are fully appropriated in the area. No one else in the industry has that option.

Bob Shaver is the water Guru in North Dakota and this is what he said re water rights appropriations-:

'The best estimate for oil-field use is about 3 billion gallons, based on last year's activity, with demand projected to double over the next decade. But it's only a matter of time before the state's water is fully appropriated, he says, and any new use will have noticeable effects'

He also said in an interview that if applications are correct, they have to issue the right by law.

The importance of Atlantis, the discharge permit and the rights swap, will stick out like a sore thumb if at any point the ND water bureau states that rights are fully appropriated.

Basically there is a long list going back many decades of rights achieved. At whatever point the water bureau think the limit has been hit, then the plug for future rights will be pulled.

In theory that scuppers expansion for everyone except IOF. IOF have that rights swap deal with the USFW. The USFW have rights to around 100k plus acre feet in Montana and ND which they don't use in most cases, but will form part of the totting up for the 'rights fully appropriated' decision.

IOF are currently applying for rights in the normal way. If at any point it was decided rights are fully appropriated, they could then switch to the rights swap process.

Depending on how much demand there is in the future in the area, they could even progress to just pumping it out of Atlantis, clean it and dispose into the Fresno for use down stream. The Fresno has a 500k bpd storage capacity. So in theory, way down the line IOF could pump 500k bpd into the Fresno and extract it anywhere down the Missouri river. The Missouri, by chance, slices rights through the middle of all the oil activity.

That said I doubt IOF would own it that far down the line. If you look at the expanding 3 forks play, and the USGS recent doubling of estimated resources, then it's going to get very busy in the area, over the next few years.

No more water rights sounds like bad news if it ever happened. Well it would be to most, but not IOF as the value of Atlantis and the deals connected to it would rise.

[n3tleylucas] 22/7/2013 12:23

Lundin buy this? They've more sense.

[engelo] 22/7/2013 12:15

Boggle: 5434: try fresno in the search box. Post 4803 for example. 5435: SWD wells used to dispose of waste water post fracking. This process is interrupted by IOF to extract iodine.

[maca1212] 22/7/2013 12:13

Bogg1e,

The Atlantis water marketing project has, I believe, nothing to do with the Atlantis project of yore involving iodine extraction from an aquifer in Montana.

The water marketing involves getting a permit to extract 5 cubic feet per second from the Missouri river in Roosevelt county that is currently hung up because (I presume) IOF are in negotiations with one (or more) local landowners to secure rights of way (RoW) between their intended Water Marketing site and either (or both) the river and the highway or the river and the intended route for their pipeline if such a thing is envisioned.

M

[battery] 22/7/2013 12:08

Bogg1e,

Fresno = river

Thanks test/rob. Wasn't aware it could be waivered.

Price engelo.??? good question. I would guess they could agree a private sale from one/a number of instii's otherwise buying in the open market they'd hit the 3% rule for disclosure early in the game.

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 12:02

If SWD is salt water disposal, is this brine used for fracking or just "disposed"?

[bogg1e] 22/7/2013 12:01

SG1 sorry but you mentioned fresno above? The only ref i can find is for a large town in California, im sure you didnt mean that, so can you pls explain? Thanks