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[loganair] 30/3/2020 22:54

jail - this is not a freebe for the passengers, they still have to buy a ticket for the flight back from Lima, Peru.

The crews who are doing these repatriation flights are doing so because they remain on full pay and full flight pay instead of being furloughed on reduced pay.

[loganair] 30/3/2020 22:50

m1 - why do you keep posting about 'agreement' has nothing really to do with CAA laws.

What one UK airline has in its contract for its crews is different from another UK airline, this has absolutely nothing to do with the CAA flight time limitations.

Normally a 2 pilot aircraft pilots can be on duty for 12 hours, with their consent this can be increased to 14 hours and in an emergency may be increased to 16 hours.

If 12 to 14 hours the Captain must write a flight report to the airline as to why. If between 14 hours and 1 minute and 16 hours the Captain must write a report to the CAA and the airline must tell the CAA why the pilots were on duty for this time.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 22:47

jailbird......good on them and the crews who are doing it.

[jailbird] 30/3/2020 22:46

You might have seen something in the news about tourists stuck in Lima Peru? BA sent 4 777s out empty - two came back this morning, and the other two will be on their way back soon, arriving tomorrow morning. About 1200 passengers in all.BA is repatriating passengers

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 22:43

logan......They don't call it the British Airways Flying Club for nothing !!!!

[loganair] 30/3/2020 22:42

As a pilot who has flown for British Airways and other UK airlines and other European airlines I am fully conversed with the flight restrictions of the various different european countries.

[loganair] 30/3/2020 22:38

One thing I've noticed about 'birdseed - Nigel - British Airways by shoes are so shinny I can see my face in them' they seem to operate to a law unto themselves and that they seem to think how British Airways operates is how all other UK airlines operate.

I remember being in Luton at 01.00 in the morning to see a British Airways aircraft land on the night postal flight from Edinburgh. The rest of us could not believe it when the Captain walked down the steps with a female cabin crew holding an umbrella over his head because of a little light drizzle - can't the Captain hold his own umbrella? British Airways is the only airline I've seen flying the nightly post around the UK that carried one member of cabin crew as apparently British Airways pilots are totally and completely incapable of getting their own drinks and food while onboard.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 22:33

NPP ......I am not sure 'local office' is the correct term LOL but the passenger / operating flights the LH cabin crew are doing, are outside of their agreements.

In addition, they have been told that PHE requirements cannot be complied with.

I am not going to get into FTL restrictions on this BB.

Logan, if you choose not to believe me .....that's ok.

[loganair] 30/3/2020 22:29

BA crew can only be operating flights outside of CAA rules with CAA authorisation, if they did not the Captain would lose his pilots license and the airline would be heavily fined.

Just for interest, most Commonwealth countries operate to UK CAA rules including New Zealand, Australia and Canada.

[npp62] 30/3/2020 22:21

The CAA is a kind of 'local office' for EASA... I'd be surprised if BA crew are operating flights outside of their FTL without CAA approval.

[loganair] 30/3/2020 22:20

Each country within Europe has its own number of flight hours and crew rest and number of days off.

As for Italy, it is the only country that I know that under its aviation rules counts the INS as a 3rd pilot for heavy crew and therefore 2 pilots and the INS may be on duty for a staggering 24 hours.

Also in Italy, off duty police officers may carry their firearms on board a domestic Italian flight.

I know as I have flown in Belgium for a Belgium airline flying Belgium registered aircraft and in Italy for an Italian airline flying Italian registered aircraft and in the UK for UK airlines flying UK registered aircraft.

In the UK number of hours that can be flown at night are different for normal commercial passenger operations and cargo airlines that fly cargo and the post around the UK at night. I flew for an airline that only flew between 06.00 and 21.00 while we had one aircraft flying the nightly post around the UK. The CAA gave our airline special dispensation to fly this aircraft on night cargo hours as long as the pilots flew a minimum of 3 days in a row which the airline gave the pilots a special night allowance for.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 22:04

Logan.....each airline has it's own agreements BUT they also have to comply with EASA rules. Within eurpoe.BA has it's own cabin crew / pilot agreements BUT they also have to comply with EASA. Pilots as well.

[loganair] 30/3/2020 21:54

For a UK registered aircraft, this dispensation can ONLY be issued by the UK CAA and no body else as it is only the CAA who has authority to issue such dispensations.

No union can issue such a dispensation as the pilot/crews are operating outside of CAA rules.

This also has nothing to do with EASA as each European country has different rules to other European countries when it comes to number of hours or sectors that a crew may fly. I know this as well as flying for UK airlines, I have operated for airlines in other European countries and each European country I flew for airlines in had completely different rules.

For example in Belgium once reach 14 hours on duty must get the number of hours on duty off plus 50%. If on duty for exactly 14 hours, must get 21 hours off.

In Italy the minimum number of days off for crew is just 4 in any 30 days and one can fly up to 130 hours in any 30 day rolling period which flying on domestic Italian routes is extremely tiring, I can tell you. Also in Italy a heavy crew, the INS can be counted as the 3rd pilot.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 21:36

logan.....maybe but not with BA. Dispensation usually comes from the crew Union and has to comply with agreements.

Of course there are exceptional circumstances.
However, currently they have to comply with EASA as UK GOV has not yet left EASA.

In any event, the crews are being asked to operate outside of agreements in order for the repatriation flights to operate, as the crews cannot slip in the countries they are being asked to fly to.

Well done to all the crews from all airlines who are operating the flights.

Let's not forget , they have no PPE either.

[loganair] 30/3/2020 21:02

I've always known them as 'One offs' where the CAA issues an airline a 'one off' dispensation either for crews to operate outside of legal hours or number of sectors or to fly an aircraft that is not fully airworthy, just the two pilots, back to base for maintenance, with UK airlines I've operated under all 3 scenarios.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 20:44

logan.......no such thing as 'one off's' (not with BA anyway) and BA crews are operating lots of them.

It either complies with EASA and agreements, or it doesn't.

[loganair] 30/3/2020 20:35

This is not illegal as the CAA can give what is called 'One Offs' that is a one off dispensation to do a particular flight or set of flights.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 20:10

exactly but the crews are operating the flights

[ccr1958] 30/3/2020 20:07

Illegal...

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 20:01

ccr......think you need to get your facts right.
I have seen the trip and spoken to the crew.

Crew passengering out and working back as well as working out and passengering back.
Maybe you think an 18 hr day to ACC and back makes it ok then.

[careful] 30/3/2020 19:32

Seem that HMG are playing hardball.
Shareholders must contribute first to save their airline.

Probably because they were stung yet again by Branson with the original Fly be bailout.
all taxpayers cash lost, Branson did not contribute a penny, he was major shareholder.

[flyingadventure] 30/3/2020 19:03

m1k3y1 that is so true, as your app shows BA are operating over a hundred flights most days arrivals/departures.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2020 18:29

BA has been operating a lot of the repatriation flights already.
Cabin Crew are flying out as passengers on the same aircraft, then getting changed and working the flight back home.

They have been doing this with flights as long as SFO ! something in excess of 24 hours there and back working. Not my idea of fun and totally outside their agreements but good on them for helping.

Lots going on that people are not aware of and is not being reported.

[hamhamham1] 30/3/2020 17:52

I guess £50m out of the 75 is likely for BA in repatriation?