Imperial Brands Share Discussion Threads

[dmore2] 15/2/2024 06:43

michael burry increased his stake in IMB and opened new interest in BATS

[marktime1231] 12/2/2024 12:04

Depends which denominator Huckers, £407M interest on £8.4B net debt versus £9.5B or so borrowings. All a bit ish.

Come on IMB, this is a good bounce, a couple more good days before ex-div please and thank you.

[huckers] 08/2/2024 13:31

I make IMB's average coupon on its debt to be just a tad over 4%.

[spud] 08/2/2024 13:23

I think it's called being listed on the UK Stock Market.

spud

[marktime1231] 08/2/2024 13:14

Well I don't see what was particularly exciting in BATs results. The thing which may have caused the share price boost is the announcement that it is looking again how to extract value from its India business ITC where it has a 29% stake which might be worth around $18B. It has been under pressure to sell up and reduce group debt but cited regulatory issues. Perhaps those hurdles are now being overcome.

Modest revenue and profit performance, a dividend limping forward. Strong organic debt reduction progress, average interest rate has jumped from 4% to 5.2% (which compares to IMBs at roughly 4.8% in FY23), but still heavily saddled with about £36B borrowings (compared to IMBs approx £9.5B), it cannot commit to better dividend progress or buybacks unlike IMB. Next gen has started to make a tiny profit contribution. A 2% increase in quarterly dividends is below inlation. BAT yields about 9.5% compared to IMBs 8% as things stand, so maybe BAT was due an uplift.

Quite why that is hurting IMB share price today who knows.

[tuftymatt] 08/2/2024 08:40

No positive bleed through to here I see.

Never mind and while the push to 2000 has stalled a little I remain confident it won't take much to get it going again and will add further at sub 1850.

Good luck all 👍🏻

[spud] 08/2/2024 08:37

Yep, up 5% as I type. spud

[saltaire111] 08/2/2024 08:04

Excellent results at BATS this morning. Will help the sector.

[marktime1231] 05/2/2024 10:41

Fenners! Chirping because someone is going back over tired old ground!

[fenners66] 05/2/2024 09:39

Please actually read back through the thread as this has been discussed in far greater detail before , and you have added nothing new.

But paying the Owners some of their profits in dividends is Never a cost - its the reason the company exists and therein lies the problem...

[acsatix] 05/2/2024 08:59

If you have 600 million equity that costs 8% post tax to remunerate and 600 million that cost 8% pretax then the choice is obvious ( unless you have no tax to pay as u make no profit). Then another thing to evaluate is the cost of future refinancing. If that is greater post tax than cost of equity then again choice is obvious. But maybe this is too complicated for you. I am sorry.

[fenners66] 04/2/2024 21:38

By the way - paying directors say a billion in salary acts as a "shield against taxation" as well.

In fact making sure you never make a profit - like a lot of the aim companies works well...

[fenners66] 04/2/2024 21:36

acsatix - welcome to the debate.

Perhaps you may want to read this post from the other day for context ...

"fenners66
25 Jan '24 - 17:47 - 8500 of 8510 Edit

The post tax interest cost of that £600m debt if repaid would allow about a 3.8p or about 2.6% increase in the dividend on its own - without any buybacks or growth in the business...."

[acsatix] 04/2/2024 19:40

Regarding retiring debt vs buyback: if I am not wrong interest payments act as a tax shield as they reduce taxation due to impact on profit. So effectively the interest paid is reduced by the tax rate. So debt at 8% is effectively around a 6% or so if tax rate is about 25%. Buyback is still better option!

[11_percent] 30/1/2024 10:31

Its heading down to fill that gap = 1917.5 - 1924.....its part filled already.

[marktime1231] 29/1/2024 16:46

Stunned by the contrary movements today. IMB should benefit from the ban on cheap Chinese imports but is down. Rogue importer Supreme is up strongly. Rogue in the sense they are (were) deliberately targetting kids and young adults with fruity vapes which are a WEEE disposal nightmare, and don't seem to have taken any social responsibility. I've picked up a dozen today.

[spud] 29/1/2024 09:27

Yes a definite benefit to both IMB & BATS.spud

[tuftymatt] 29/1/2024 09:00

Seem to remember reading last year both IMB and BATS welcoming this / better regulation.

Good luck all 👍🏻

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 29/1/2024 08:12

Impact on IMB..? this ban will remove the cheap Chinese imports and regulate the UK market space, a good thing for the company, with BATS moving faster into it too..

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 26/1/2024 14:49

2000 is indeed coming into view, maybe we can hit it next week then we can move on towards 2250/2500 next, see where we are at Easter and ISA time but it is a hold from me.. :o)

[fenners66] 25/1/2024 17:47

The post tax interest cost of that £600m debt if repaid would allow about a 3.8p or about 2.6% increase in the dividend on its own - without any buybacks or growth in the business....

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 25/1/2024 15:14

#Huckers, thanks for that input, I would like to see that retired too, like you say buying shares back at 1600/1700 made more sense which saves the dividend payout on those shares, not quite such a clear cut choice at 1900 but still good value, we will have to wait for the H1 financials in May for period ending 31.03.2024 to see IF the company wiped that GBP600M..